Educate Me On Welders

[North Coast Cab]

I've decided that it is time for me to invest in a welder even though I haven't welded since high school. I want to ba able to weld 1/4" steel as well as sheet metal. Should I sick weld, mig or tig? Welder recommendations?

John

[Anton]

TIG,

Maybe even one that can be converted to stick and have a MIG gun added.

Buy Miller.

Do you want to weld aluminum as well as steel?

[turbo6bar]

TIG 1/4" would require one haus of a welder. You're looking at $2500+.

MIG 1/4" is OK on something like a Millermatic 175, and better on larger machines. The 175 is around $750 out the door. That's an approximate price.

Do you have 210 volt access? That's probably not important since you can't do 1/4" with 110, anyway.

What are you making?
Jürgen

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I bought a Miller 175. This thing rocks! Bought it local with gloves, auto-helmut, wire and a cylinder of gas all for $900.

Buy local, don't buy eBay.

[MotoSook]

I have a $250 Habor Freight mig 120 VAC welder, and it works just fine for the stuff I do. For major welding on structural pieces, I would farm out to a seasoned welder anyway. It's good enough to weld all the sheet metal on a 911. A 1 hour bottle last long enough, and it's $23 to refill at my local BOC Gas, I bought a bottle initially for $80 + $100 or so for the dual regulator to go on the bottle.

[turbo6bar]

I must second Shaun's recommendation. The Miller 175 is a great welder. When you're comparing prices, note that you can get a good package deal from local companies. The shop gave me a bottle of gas free, so you only have to pay for refills. That'll save you some bucks. I'm an eBay freak, but this was a no-brainer (I gots no brains, anyway). Go local for MIG. TIG, well that is a little tougher issue.

[audi2.7t]

MIG, 1/4" is no problemo and you can always throw some argon on, change spool wheels, liner and tip and do a nice job on aluminum and even stainless (you'll need Stargon for that)

[lendaddy]

You don't "need Stargon" to weld stainless, but it does make cleaner welds.

We use Miller & Lincoln with great success. I would get a MIG unit myself, but to each their own. A MIG welder is a great tool... quick, easy, effective. "Oh damn I broke the handle to my xyz...." BZZZZZZZTTTTTTT done! TIG is different, more prep is required and more talent. It's also difficult to fill large gaps with TIG in a timely manner. MIG is just pass/cool/pass/cool/repeat. Just my $0.02

[bluebullet]

I have a book on welding practices and what not...tells you everything about each type, what its purpose is blah blah. Im not at home at the moment, but when I do i'll give you the title. It taught me everything for a jumpstart, and my boss taught me the rest.

I would still like to learn how to TIG weld. I spent a good 45 minutes once welding ONE piece of pipe. I kept burning a hole thru it....its a bit intimidating.

[928ram]

Get a MIG that suits your need, very handy tool to have in the garage.

[widebody911]

I can weld 1/4 with my 1100v MIG, .030 wire and C25 gas. You need to pay attention to make sure you're getting penetration, and be prepared to grind and re-weld if you don't get it the first time.

As an aside, I experimented with welding aluminum this weeked, and also with using straight argon with steel. The aluminum test was a disaster - I either need to change the liner (which I have in my possesion, just didn't feel like changing it) or get a spool gun. The experiement with the argon went better - I got a much flatter, cleaner weld than with C25; I was cautioned that I wouldn't get good penetration, but with the .030 wire I could blow holes in 1/8" stock. The cost difference is negligble according to the guy at the welding store; I think I'm switching over.

[North Coast Cab]

I just want something for the "around the garage and car" type basic work. I have little experience, but as a method of convienece would love to be able to handle most of these jobs myself. I'm not looking to make a big investment, and I don't expect to make a living doing it either. I'd like to do 1/4" mild steel plate to sheetmetal repair if possible.

John

[Rufblackbird]

I'm planning on a Miller Millermatic 135 fairly soon, but it's "capable" of only 3/16".

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_135/

[SLO-BOB]

Miller and Hobart are the same and other than Lincoln, the only way to go. Anything less is money wasted. The Miller 175/Hobart 180 is ideal for a garage welder as mentioned above but maybe a bit more than you need. You want something that will make welding easier-cheap welders make it more difficult. Get a Hobart Handler 140 or the equilvelent Miller. They can be had for under $500 and are very portable 120v units. Get Argon gas shielding-flux core sucks and is very annoying.

[emcon5]

Good discussion of welders here:
http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6567

Tom

[A Quiet Boom]

John,

You got my vote via PM. All purpose would be a 220V Mig. Miller, Lincoln and Hobart are all comparable. I prefer an argon blend for most welds since straight argon can be a little soft and straight CO2 is too hard. Tigs are nice toys and make beautiful welds but much slower than Mig unless you're really skilled. I can but or lap weld just as fast with either but filling holes with a Tig is difficult as is anything you can't weld at a table. Mig you can lie upside down under a car and weld jsut make sure you're well protected. With a lot of prep you can get a decent weld on 1/4" with a 110V but I wouldn't trust it for stressed areas. Here's a thought what about OA? Let's see, it's portable, requires no electricity, weld as thick as yor largest tip, cut, heat, braze etc. I've done a lot of bodywork with a #0 tip and small filler rod then turned around and welded up something like a bumper bracket. A good set of torches is in nearly every experienced welders arsenal. BTW brazing is also a good way to repair sheetmetal and you could even learn to to lead work like the old timers (something I've always wanted to learn).

[beepbeep]

Hehe...am I the only one that preferes TIG?

Comparing MIG to TIG is like comparing Crown Vic to 911...

TIG does require some initial skills but boy is it versatile. Once you have "the feel" you can weld whatever you like. Brand new TIG welders are expensive but there are nice used ones that can be bought cheap.

Mattias bought perfectly working Miller 330A for peanuts from nearby shop. I even had water-cooled handle and Argon tube. Only problem is that it weights half a ton

http://project911.luminasweden.com/log_images/178_7836.JPG

But it can handle aluminium, stainless steel, titanium and all other sorts of difficult materials and deliver up to 450 amps in DC mode.

It's the Rolls Royce of weld-machines. There are (much) small AC/DC TIG designs based on switch/inverter technology on market but they are expensive.

Try to do this with MIG :

[A Quiet Boom]

beepbeep,

I prefer Tig, just not in this application where it will be his only welder, he's relatively inexperienced and needs to weld in adverse areas like under a car. Still Tig is the best in qualifed hands. I've been looking at a hand trigger and possibly a spool gun for mine. BTW I feel a water cooled torch is a necessisty with a Tig but that adds about $3-500 to te already high price.

[turbo6bar]

TIG on steel seems to be a lot easier than aluminum. My lone experience with TIG on aluminum was almost disastrous. Let's just say molten aluminum was leaving the part faster than I could add it.

+ TIG with capability to weld 1/4" steel is $$$, not to mention electrical service rated to drive that box. I bought a TIG machine after a MIG, and I seriously doubt I would have been happy with TIG only for 4+ years.

[FastDave]

Quote: Miller and Hobart are the same and other than Lincoln, the only way to go. Anything less is money wasted. The Miller 175/Hobart 180 is ideal for a garage welder as mentioned above but maybe a bit more than you need. You want something that will make welding easier-cheap welders make it more difficult. Get a Hobart Handler 140 or the equilvelent Miller. They can be had for under $500 and are very portable 120v units. Get Argon gas shielding-flux core sucks and is very annoying.

I agree 100%. My Hobart rep said he could not tell me the difference between the Miller 175 & Hobart 175. He couldn't say they are the same but couldn't define the difference either. Both require 220V. I personally own the Hobart 135 Handler - retails for about $425 and comes with the gas bottle attachments. It's a great machine and very versatile since it's a 115V.

I have a new Hobart 250 mig for sale $1200 if you're interested.