Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Miscellaneous and Off Topic Forums > Off Topic Discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered
 
j. brian mulloy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: "Wet" Coast, B.C.
Posts: 60
Fulminations/Time to Vent Spleen

High Noon on the West Coast

1. The NHL season is over, thanks to the stubbornness & inflexibility of Goodenow & one vertically challenged NBA management cast-off (Stern's gopher at one time). These two boneheads had over 2 years to settle the issues & work out some kind of mutually acceptable, responsible deal the owners and the NHLPA could live with & do business. They instead, chose a confrontational 'take it or leave it stance' right from the getgo. The kind of brinkmanship in which the 2 engaged, was laughable at best. The net of their antics are: the game has the ignominious distinction of being the only major sports league to have canceled an entire season; the fan base will be compromised/eroded (especially in the 'sunbelt' franchises); many dozens of people who's livelihood depends on the game have been screwed; and the credibility of the game will suffer as many people perceive this whole fiasco as financial mismanagement (irresponsibility, in more than a few franchises) & greed on the owners side and self indulgent millionaire union players on the other. I am probably of guilty of oversimplifying the situation a little. Both Goodenow & 'shorty' should do the right thing now; 'Resign & get outta Dodge' for the sake of the game.

2. Canseco's book??? Talk about throwing all your buddies & ex-teammates under the bus! "Hey Hose, I thought you had to be able to read a book before you were allowed to try & write one." What the hell, maybe I am selling him short; he probably wrote it with crayons.

I am now going to have a nice cold beer & work on my project. I know that will make me feel so much better

Take Care &
Respectfully yours

Brian

__________________
Mens Agitat Molem
1970 T (presently in pieces)
Old 02-17-2005, 11:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Super Jenius
 
Overpaid Slacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 3,491
Send a message via AIM to Overpaid Slacker
An Irish guy ranting? The Hell you say?!!

I don't lament the loss of a season of the NHL, but I believe it was the players who squandered the opportunity. From the get-go, the owners said there had to be a salary cap; that's what they needed in order to make a deal work. If that's "take-it-or-leave-it" then, fine -- but it was a negotiating point the owners had decided going in that they absolutely couldn't bend on. And they didn't.

There's nothing wrong with that. If it truly is a deal-breaking point, state it up front and don't dance around it, tossing it on the heap near the end. The owners were up front about it; you might not like the position, but it IS their position.

The players said "absolutely not" -- effectively saying that they wanted some non-Euclidian fiscal universe to be created just for them where costs should bear no relation to revenues. BUT THEN the players "caved." Jeez, if you'd accept a salary cap in principle, why not just accept the freaking thing 5 months ago and then work out the numbers?

Speaking of numbers, Bettman was on ESPNRadio this morning, and I didn't hear all of the interview ... However, Bettman said that the league had offered, essentially had an open offer to the NHLPA to come in and fully audit the league's (and teams') books. The PA refused -- it's like they didn't WANT to know the situation they just wanted to demand more and more money. If what Bettman said is true (I don't know or not) then the PA has not only been terrible at negotiating, it's been negligent in its representation of players.

Look, the players are way overpaid... why should they be immune to a market contraction like the world's overpaid CEOs, Tech Directors, Creative Development People, etc., etc., etc. went through a few years ago? It's just a freaking game.

Canseco -- hmmmm... I really dislike the guy, for a lot of reasons, and he's obviously motivated in large part by spite. However, that doesn't mean what he said is a lie. And I hate to say it, but he came across very well when he was interviewed (not "well" in a, "gee this guy is cool" sort of way, but in an "I don't think he's lying" sort of way).

Then again, I personally don't care about steroid use in sports. I just can't get all that worked up about it. And the next time I hear some whiny stat-boy who never played a sport at a high level bytch about how it ruins the sanctity of "records" or "history" I'm gonna squash him. What is this overblown fetishization of sports history and statistical benchmarks? These are just guys hitting/throwing/catching a freaking ball. They're not "heroes" and many of them, frankly, aren't even "sportsmen." Why does this matter so much? Get some perspective. Jeez.

JP
__________________
2003 SuperCharged Frontier ../.. 1979 930 ../.. 1989 BMW 325iX ../.. 1988 BMW M5 ../.. 1973 BMW 2002 ../..1969 Alfa Boattail Spyder ../.. 1961 Morris Mini Cooper ../..2002 Aprilia RSV Mille ../.. 1985 Moto Guzzi LMIII cafe ../.. 2005 Kawasaki Brute Force 750

Last edited by Overpaid Slacker; 02-17-2005 at 11:56 AM..
Old 02-17-2005, 11:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered
 
j. brian mulloy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: "Wet" Coast, B.C.
Posts: 60
Hi JP

Interesting reply. You make a valid point re: NHLPA vowing to not ever accept a cap, then essentially 'rolling over' at the eleventh hour. I also agree that both sides have to deal with economic contraction. The audit bit has been approached before & was found to be a flawed/skewed (depending on who's side you are on & believe) process due to the creative accounting of a few owners. There never was any agreement as to who's audit was impartial, carried out with due diligence, and most importantly, reflected the real financial health of the league.

Bettman is somewhat disingenuous in making this statement after the fact. My feeling is, he is trying to put his spin on the whole mess. I am sure we'll all be hearing the union side of things & their spin.

Canseco has never been a favourite of mine either, especially as he comes across as a squealer just out to make a quick buck. It ain't like we all fell off the last turnip truck when it comes to performance enhancing drugs. Steroid use in sports is so rampant that I doubt we'll ever see 'clean stats' with asterisks beside them. Again I agree with your point. Time to get over it & have another 'wobbly pop' You won't believe this, but the sun is shining here (usually rains a lot this time of year) and it is a very nice day. Back to the project.

Cheers
Brian
__________________
Mens Agitat Molem
1970 T (presently in pieces)
Old 02-17-2005, 01:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Higgs Field
Posts: 22,582
I personally can't wait for the day when this entire pro sports thing caves in under its own weight. The salaries are preposterous; the stars are no more than whining spoiled brats, too much tax money goes into supporting it, and on and on. I applaud the NHL in taking what may be the first step down this path and putting an end to this whole ridiculous business.
__________________
Jeff
'72 911T 3.0 MFI
'93 Ducati 900 Super Sport
"God invented whiskey so the Irish wouldn't rule the world"
Old 02-17-2005, 01:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered
 
j. brian mulloy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: "Wet" Coast, B.C.
Posts: 60
Hey Jeff

"God invented whiskey so the Irish wouldn't rule the world"

I love it. Now I know why I have such a taste for Jamesons, Powers, & Tullamore Dew! Thanks

Cheers
Brian
__________________
Mens Agitat Molem
1970 T (presently in pieces)
Old 02-17-2005, 03:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered
 
Eagle Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Panama City Fl.
Posts: 185
Garage
Have you ever noticed that in all the interviews with both sides of the NHL (No Hockey League) dispute they always say "I (we) only want whats best for the game!" Well I think today we can all say that none of them care about the game at all!

They have allowed almost unchecked expansion, that has watered down the game, over the last few years. I can understand adding a few teams but what we have now is unacceptable. There isn't a large enough fan-base to support a league this size.

But none of it matters now! All I know is they are making a huge mistake that will get worse before it gets better!!
__________________
Jason
F-15 Crew Chief (21 years)
'86 944
'71 914 (Sold)
'79 911 SC (Sold)
Old 02-17-2005, 05:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered
 
nostatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 30,318
Garage
oh that it only was a game...
Old 02-17-2005, 05:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
drag racing the short bus
 
dd74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Location, Location...
Posts: 21,983
What's "hockey?"
__________________
The Terror of Tiny Town
Old 02-17-2005, 05:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered
 
j. brian mulloy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: "Wet" Coast, B.C.
Posts: 60
You guys have nailed it!

The game is never going to be the same, for better or for worse. Quasimodo and those words - ring a bell!! I can't believe I just said that.

I've donned my asbestos fire suit just in case of an upcoming 'flame job'

Yours frustratedly (not a real word)
Brian
__________________
Mens Agitat Molem
1970 T (presently in pieces)
Old 02-17-2005, 08:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally posted by Overpaid Slacker
Look, the players are way overpaid... why should they be immune to a market contraction like the world's overpaid CEOs, Tech Directors, Creative Development People, etc., etc., etc. went through a few years ago? It's just a freaking game.
Yeah, why should owners be immune to their decisions? Maybe there should be an owner contraction, too. After all, who offered the "overpaid" players their contracts? I thought the free market set prices. The owners need a salary cap to control their checkbooks? I don't think so. The smaller teams want a salary cap to reduce the economic force the richer teams have in the marketplace of player contracts - and the owners have never been able to agree on how - that's all this is about.

Quote:
Then again, I personally don't care about steroid use in sports. I just can't get all that worked up about it.... Why does this matter so much? Get some perspective. Jeez.
It matters because it is CHEATING.
__________________
Scott
Old 02-17-2005, 09:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Super Jenius
 
Overpaid Slacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 3,491
Send a message via AIM to Overpaid Slacker
Hey, I'm all for eliminating a few teams; and shortening the season; and playing fewer games per week; and cutting salaries to reflect hockey's 4th tier as professional sports "entertainment"; but your points ... such as they are ... still don't get to why the NHLPA should insist on being paid without regard to income. If you go down that road then sooner or later EVERYbody loses b/c the franchises that pay them go away. And let's face it, these guys are not exactly fraught with other marketable skills.
To say that it's all about the owners is hopelessly myopic. You're not a union worker by any chance?

ALL CAPS or not, I still can't get so worked up about it -- if it's cheating, it's cheating that I really don't care about. Hell, holding in football is "cheating", that's why they have a penalty for it. Travelling in basketball is "cheating", that's why they have a penalty for it. How many World Series did any team with Giambi, Bonds, McGuire, Canseco or Sosa win? So this "cheating" amounts to individuals racking up personal statistics ... and I don't care. If you need to buy in to the cult of personality surrounding professional athletes, go right ahead; you've got plenty of company. I prefer to lionize people who do shyt that actually matters. But that's just me.

Brian -
As I said, I didn't hear the entire ESPNRadio interview yesterday (I pulled into work in the middle of the Bettman interview). However, today they recapped yesterday's interviews with the NHL and the PA, replaying sections of the interviews. Notably, they replayed Bettman's bit about offering to give the PA access to the NHL's books. As an aside, I want to mention two points -- first of all, Bettman said this offer has been open for years; and also, this is not for the players themselves to look in the books, but for their accountants to look, obviously. The PA could certainly hire some high-octane accountants to dig through the books and figure out where the chicanery is (if any). If there are accountants that can unravel the Enron nest of snakes, they can figure out the NHL's books and where they depart from reality.

Anyway, when Bettman's quote was played for the PA rep, he specifically did not deny that the offer had been made for the PA to look at the books; instead he went of on this ad hominem attack of Bettman. I wasn't convinced by his changement of the topic, to put it mildly.

The owners certainly aren't without blame for the situation; however, as I said above, it is the players that let the opportunity to come to a deal slip away. Hockey is really all the players can do, so it's incredibly stupid not to take something (which is still hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars a year) when your other options are wash cars or work at your brother-in-law's lumber yard.

The PA behaved like the classic awful debater, IMHO. The blunted "wit" that refuses to let you make a point by shouting you down before you get to the point, or by changing the subject, or getting "personal" ... because once your point is stated, is "out there", then it has to be dealt with. That's how I believe the PA handled the offer to look at the books.

But, as I said, I haven't followed this with rapt attention. Squabbles between billionaires and well-overpaid millionaires don't really excite me so much. Especially when I don't deify athletes.

JP
__________________
2003 SuperCharged Frontier ../.. 1979 930 ../.. 1989 BMW 325iX ../.. 1988 BMW M5 ../.. 1973 BMW 2002 ../..1969 Alfa Boattail Spyder ../.. 1961 Morris Mini Cooper ../..2002 Aprilia RSV Mille ../.. 1985 Moto Guzzi LMIII cafe ../.. 2005 Kawasaki Brute Force 750

Last edited by Overpaid Slacker; 02-18-2005 at 05:41 AM..
Old 02-18-2005, 05:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Too big to fail
 
widebody911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Carmichael, CA
Posts: 33,894
Garage
Send a message via AIM to widebody911 Send a message via Yahoo to widebody911
I'd just as soon nuke professional sports and replace ESPN with the Grid Girls Channel, but it appears that the average American male prefers to watch big sweaty men on TV...
__________________
"You go to the track with the Porsche you have, not the Porsche you wish you had."
'03 E46 M3
'57 356A
Various VWs
Old 02-18-2005, 09:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Super Jenius
 
Overpaid Slacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 3,491
Send a message via AIM to Overpaid Slacker
Thom -- There's a Grid Girls Channel? Well, crap, of course there must be!!! If there's a freaking Golf Channel, there's got to be a Grid Girls Channel.

Hmmm.... I'm thinking this could be the common ground required to unite people of varied political backgrounds (except maybe the feminists ... but the lesbians might dig it) and take this country's electorate by storm!

JP
__________________
2003 SuperCharged Frontier ../.. 1979 930 ../.. 1989 BMW 325iX ../.. 1988 BMW M5 ../.. 1973 BMW 2002 ../..1969 Alfa Boattail Spyder ../.. 1961 Morris Mini Cooper ../..2002 Aprilia RSV Mille ../.. 1985 Moto Guzzi LMIII cafe ../.. 2005 Kawasaki Brute Force 750
Old 02-18-2005, 10:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally posted by Overpaid Slacker
but your points ... such as they are ... still don't get to why the NHLPA should insist on being paid without regard to income.... You're not a union worker by any chance?

My comment was poorly communicated. A pox on both their houses....the players are no more spoiled then the owners are greedy. Owners are free to offer less money and the players free to accept it at any time. If their specific free market does not afford that possibility then it is the responsibility of the parties to negotiate in good faith.... I don't think either party is negotiating in good faith. That is just my opinion.

"union worker" - this is a contextual question? I am an executive in a commercial business and have no union connections.

ALL CAPS or not, I still can't get so worked up about it -- if it's cheating, it's cheating that I really don't care about.... and I don't care.

Put CHEATING in a non-lionizing context. You run Business A and a competitor runs business B. Business A pays attention to the laws and regulations of the land and business B does not. Business B's net profit is higher than Business A due to a reduction in regulatory cost and has a higher stock price as a result. Business A is forced into bankruptcy. If you are the owner of Business A - is CHEATING important or mere moral relativism? My point is that in a free market the rules should be the same for all participants. Frankly, I could care less about baseball or professional athletes.

If you need to buy in to the cult of personality surrounding professional athletes, go right ahead; you've got plenty of company. I prefer to lionize people who do shyt that actually matters. But that's just me.

I agree - Gary and Bob do not have the best interests of the game in mind - both are hired mouthpieces paid to get their clients everything they can.

Hockey is really all the players can do, so it's incredibly stupid not to take something (which is still hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars a year) when your other options are wash cars or work at your brother-in-law's lumber yard

This comment is beneath your obvious intelligence. Are you so sure the players aren't creating an economically advantageous negotiating position for the future?

__________________
Scott
Old 02-18-2005, 06:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Reply


 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:59 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.