The Work of God

[M.D. Holloway]

Check out the below pick - a Russian Church. Somebody believes! Also, I attached a link to check out others. In there hay day, they had some of the most interesting churches. And they say they are a Godless country...
Heres the site:
http://photo.mnc.ru/
The links on the upper left translated are:
Kremlin
City
Churches
Bridges
Moscow State University

[rsrfan]

Looks like Russian Orthodox. I grew up in Alaska and they were scattered about. Remnants of the russian occupation. The really are quite beautiful.

[Superman]

I think the "Russians are Godless people" hot news flash was brought to you by the same people who brought you such zingers as "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction." And for similar reasons. Namely hatred. Hatred is a great motivator. Interestingly, hatred of liberals is pretty popular these days. Again, for the same reason. It works like a charm. Always has.

[Dantilla]

Godless government and Godless country are two different things.

Hey, Superman, disagreement and hate are not the same.

[Moneyguy1]

Dan:

Sometimes here on these BBs, it is difficult to discern the difference!!!

[M.D. Holloway]

All the Russians I have ever met are deeply religious and spiritual. The aethiests and agnostics were always the rich punk kids trying to make a statement without any foundation.

I guess we can thank Nick and Pete for the great views.

[Jeff Higgins]

Why do liberals (and certain ethnic groups for that matter) like to play the "hate" card so much? Question absolutely anything they stand for, and immediately they brand you as "hating" them. They have become the boys that cry "hate"; no one really listens anymore. I guess when so much of what they stand for crumbles under even the slightest objective scrutiny, they are left with no better response than "everybody hates me...sniffle". That asside, the architecture of these churches is truly impressive. That good people continued to attend and worship even through some very repressive anti-Christian regimes is even more impressive. No, the Russian people were never reduced to godlesness, in spite of the best efforts of an officially godless government.

[Superman]

Would it help you to understand the issue if we substitute the word "fear" for the word "hate?" Have you noticed some of the more popular methods that leaders and influential people use to motivate large numbers of people? Or are you just fixated on the character of the stereotype of the persons who tend to disagree with you. Looks like the latter, Jeff. And what's up with this:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
I guess when so much of what they stand for crumbles under even the slightest objective scrutiny......

So I guess that most of the world's population stands for principles that simply crumble under your rapier intellect? And you use this kind of love-fest to point out that others are playing the hate card?

A friend recently pointed out to me something pretty fundmental that I had missed. I think it's obvious that socialism is what Jesus asked us to do. He asked us to live a life of charity. We're not doing that, but some folks want to, and in small groups, they do. Very effectively, I might add. But here's the twist: IT's the pagan hippies that are doing it, and not the fundamental christians. There are people in every society that are just not willing to do that. Their desire to share and live in harmony rather than competition is just not strong enough to overcome their desire for security (that's the nicest way I can describe what is really greed). So, the reason communism won't work as a national system, the reason the great social experiment Jesus asked us to try can not happen on a national scale, is because only a portion of the population is willing to go there. And that group is not the free-market survival-of-the-fittest, some-are-winner-and-some-are-losers, fundamentalist so-called "christians."

That being the case, I choose sides. This is one Christian who will hang with the pagans. And that's what Jesus did. He did not care much for the pharises, and neither do I.

[dd74]

Originally posted by Superman
But here's the twist: IT's the pagan hippies that are doing it, and not the fundamental christians. There are people in every society that are just not willing to do that.

Well, just to be fair, here's one fundamental Christian who is trying to donate $950 million to tsunami relief.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/211462_tsunamifunds10.html

I wouldn't generalize.

Some of the pagan hippies I once knew now make seven-figure-salaries as lawyers, doctors or H-wood agents. And they like to tell YOU who and how to donate your money from the steering wheel of their Mercedes Benz as if it's the bully pulpit.

But I won't generalize.

[M.D. Holloway]

I just thought the church was pretty cool...didn't mean to start a fire storm

[Moneyguy1]

Lube..It doesn't matter the subject; someone will warp it into a tirade about politics and partisanship. It's just a matter of time.

BTW...faith never really left the Soviet bloc; it only went underground.

[djmcmath]

Funny thing about churches -- persecute them, and they grow. Give them freedom, and they die. Bizarre, but numerous examples exist. Russia's certainly one of them, and "godless" is hardly a way to describe the Russian people (thought certainly apt for the old gov't).

You go, Supe. If Jesus came back today, he'd probably find me spending too much time with the religious leadership, and not enough time with real people. I've wasted too much of my life as an academic Christian, never an applied Christian. Didn't Jesus come for the people? Don't people matter to God? Why do I still miss the point? (Sigh) Thanks for the perspective.

Dan

Sup, do you ever put your agenda down and just enjoy life? Dude, you have a lot of hate going on.

[Dantilla]

My take-

1. I appreciate Superman for making me think. Thought provoking is good. "Your mama...." type stuff is worthless. Superman is always thoughtful, and has some good arguements.

2. Communism ignores the human spirit to excell. Why work hard if there is no benefit? In a communist system, all sports would end in a tie, because one team having more is not fair. The result? No more sports. What's the point of trying? That's why, with so much fertile land in Russia, they had to import so much food. Production per acre was an absolute joke.

3. Jesus never commanded the government to care for the poor. He commanded US! Giving "tokens" to the government through taxes is a way to say "I've done my part, now don't bug me. I care, after all."

I help build homes with Habitat for Humanity. It's MY job, not government's. Supe- Have you ever taken a homeless guy out for dinner? I have. I won't hand him cash, but I've asked him to join me, and I'll let him order anything on the menu. Good chance to talk.

4, and back on topic- My wife has gone to Russia twice now, to help train teachers how to teach kids. So many areas still expect kids to sit in neat rows and listen to lectures. The thought that kids learn much faster by having fun is a new concept (My wife is a silly nut around kids).
These wonderful people are starved for the Bible, and are wanting my wife's group to go back over and over again. Having some religeous freedoms returned is doing great things. The Russian Orthodox church has always exsisted, but with the communist government's heavy thumb watching and controling everything.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
I just thought the church was pretty cool...didn't mean to start a fire storm

Bull****.....................it's architecture, not the "Work of God", the title sent this thread into the flames.

The eastern part of Canada has a bunch of small towns near the coast (road trip 20 years ago). Each small town seems to have either a nice Orthodox church (dome - up on a hill) or an "in the village" steeple type church. Each application is nice in it's own way, felt more like Europe than North America at times.

[IROC]

That picture reminds me of something I overheard on an airplane once...

"Churches would be great places if it wasn't for religion."

I think that sums it up. Beautiful architecture, very little of value emanating from the pulpit...

Mike

[Superman]

Thanks, Dan.

Mark, you know me. I know no one who is more happy-go-lucky in their daily life than I, and I refuse to hang around whiners and folks who depress me. And in reality, I believe in certain stuff that I don't admit here often, like many aspects of capitalism. Frankly, as emperor, my economic system would be a lot like the system we have here now. The one I rail against viciously. So sue me. I do feel strongly that certain problems need to be discussed, and I honestly feel that there are certain weaknesses in the typical conservative viewpoint.

I also notice that 'communism' requires a certain level of atheism, and obviously I'm all the way uncomfortable with that. So, here I am admitting the stuff I don't put forward here. Again, because there seems to be plenty of people here to take pot shots at socialist notions, and liberals in general, yadda yadda.

Anyway Mark, I'm not sure you're reading me accurately and that surprizes me after the several 'normal' conversations you and I have had. I have not changed. If and when we meet again, you're not going to find me different from the last time we enjoyed camaraderie. But some arguments need to happen, and I'm poking hard for them to happen here. I'm not sure how to raise the awareness I'm hoping to raise here, but it's obvious that my "everybody's beautiful and everybody's correct" approach would not do the trick.

Yeah Dan. I've bought food directly for homeless folks. Giving, and serving, is WAY more fun than most folks think it would be. Thanks for building the houses. I haven't done that. In doing these things, you must be getting some mythology debugged, compared to other conservatives who just think poor people are a bunch of lazy alcoholics.

[island911]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Lube..It doesn't matter the subject; someone will warp it into a tirade about politics and partisanship. It's just a matter of time.

Well I think that's just super. . . . man!

[Moneyguy1]

And true........

from a fellow cynic...

[Superman]

Okay okay. I got carried away. It's beautiful architecture. Sheesh.