"that is how I was raised"

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/shake.gif

And look how you turned out!!

Beating up little people b/c you can't communicate... that's a bully.

Make a change in how you handle yourself... seek help if need be.

There's hope...

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"Am I being an unreasonable as*hole?"
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Since you asked...'not the term I'd use.
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I'm guessing this is not an uncommon expression of your parenting style.
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From my personal experiences: When we excavate our buried Compassion and Empathy lying beneath the cover-up of our own woundedness, and let those Virtues wrap themselves around our own heart, we're more willing (less fearful) to get off our position. When our ego runs our show, we're under the influence of an impoverished psychological atmosphere, our heart's vote is cancelled, and we're functioning sub-optimally. The transformation of lower-self ego energy (Pathwork) is a process (life-style) and not an event, however. I've said this before here, the un-evolved ego views the virtue of Humility (vulnerability) as inferiority. Lots of that running around in this life. You're not alone.
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The role of parenting is to model healthy human functionality. Period! Easier said than done, for sure...but what else is more worthwhile in this life than to participate in our own personal transformation? It's something to do between birth and death...it damn sure beats the alternative.
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Being slapped in the face is an extraordinarily shaming human experience...especially when we're young. 'Sets the stage for future problems. But you know that. ;)
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Parents can play different instruments, but they MUST be reading the same sheet music...IMO.
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Good luck.
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I just figured it out! My mom smacked (note to moses: I said smacked not punched) my face when I cursed at her when I was 16. Now I know why I voted for Bush. I bet all you other guys that got spanked for doing wrong when you were kids all feel better too. If only they would of had timeouts when I was a kid. They sound so warm and touchy feely. Puhhleeezzeee!

Gotta agree with Moses again.

I got no problem lettin Mr Hyde out for that.

I'm still wet behind the ears myself, but if you actually "beat" your kid.....that's out of line. I understand spanking but not beating. I also understand that you want to teach your son that there will not always be someone running behind him to clean up. I see too many young people who have had mommy and daddy bail them out for all of their life. It manifests itself in total irresponsibility and they usually end up as brats. If you literally beat your kid and did not spank him, you definitely need to have a talk with him. You also need to have a talk with your wife. That is just my non-experienced 2 cents.

Moses and StomachMonkey have it correct. Your behavior was intolerable but your son should have done what was right which was to clean it up and then mention it to you so that you knew the dog had been sick.

A spanking is one thing - what you did is entirely another.

I'm conflicted on this issue because in general hitting children is bad, even spanking. But honestly, some kids don't need spanking and some do. My sister has 3 beautiful kids who were never hit, 2 are fantastic and the youngest, (5 y.o.), is an absolute *********. Spoiled, indulged, lashes out at adults and throws fits when he even remotely does not get his way in any given moment, you just want to *****-slap him. My sister and her husband are extreme in their anti-spanking, (or even disciplining IMO), and it shows. I see little A-hole children everywhere talking ***** to their henpecked, spineless parents, 99% of the time in the rich part of town. (This would include my sister, M.D. w/ M.D. husband).

At the same time, by adolescence this should be way over. Respect must be established at a young age. And losing your mind and hitting a kid out of anger will never engender respect, only fear of the lack-of-control larger person. And Moses is right, it is the clankety-clank for you if someone wants to make an issue out of it. How would you like child abuse on your record? Your new "bro s" in jail are going to be beating your ass while you try to explain "your side" of it. :rolleyes:

You did something wrong long ago, too late now if they don't respect you. A son should not even dream of dissing his father like that, hitting him now is going to make you go backwards in this department. Or go to jail. Try counseling, and tell your f'ing wife to get w/ the program. (but don't hit or threaten anyone, for chrisakes). :cool:

I guess AFJuvat should tell us exactly what "smacked about the mouth" means. One slap, directed in anger? Many slaps? Punches? Was he bleeding afterwards or not? Bruises?

Personally, I also think you were right and wrong.

Right, for disciplining a backtalking kid, if he knew what your expectations were and the consequences of disobedience. Did he know that you expected him to clean up the dog's mess without being told?

Wrong, for yelling at your wife in front of the children and physical abuse of a child (mouth-smacking). Also wrong for displaying poor self-control over your temper, and then storming out for a couple of drinks. This sets a bad example.

I suggest that you have a heart-to-heart with the wife to establish ground rules for future handling of such matters, after suitable apology (to her). You need to present a common front to the kids and be absolutely rigorous about it (easy to talk about, difficult in practice, BTW).

I also suggest that you reconsider your methods of physical punishment. A spanking across the backside for a boy of 11 or 13 is one thing. A smack across the mouth (still to be defined) is another matter altogether. Hitting a girl anywhere in any way is not on at all, in my book. There are many, much more effective ways of dealing with disobedient girls than physical punishment. With a boy in the house, hitting/spanking a girl just sets the wrong example at an impressionable age.

My credentials? Trying to raise 2 girls aged 13 & 9, and a boy of 7.

LeRoux

13-year-old boys are all *******s, so their fathers CANNOT also be *******s. I'm only recently not a teenager (not for about five years now) so I can say with authority that even the best relationships between boys and their fathers at that age will be rocky. My dad and I each had a great deal - he had a son who never got in trouble, got good grades, active with boy scouts; and I got a dad who wasn't a workaholic but supported me and gave me enough money to live on, and allowed virtually unlimited use of the cars. But between the ages of 13 and 18 I couldn't stand him and I know I annoyed the hell out of him.

Understand this is normal, and don't let yourself get mad about it. (Or at least try not to. It's hard to internalize.)

This may sound touch-feely but let's put it in a different perspective - when a young boy is put in that position, he knows he can't fight back right then because he's too weak (physically). But he's memorizing the thought that if he were to fight back, he'd have to fight like a rotweiler - all out. At some point he's going to realize he's strong enough, but he'll still have the all out mentality. At some point he's going to kick your ass and if you're lucky he'll realize what he's doing before he does you any real damage.

You can count on that. And you can come look at my dad's x-rays if you don't believe it.

smacked in the mouth - open handed slap across the mouth.

No, there were no bruises or bleeding - get real people.

13 is a little too old to be bending across the knee and spanking.

13 is easily old enough to get smacked across the mouth for being disrespectful.

AFJuvat

In the end I don't care if anybody thinks I'm an ********* or not, I do the best I can in any situation and only have 2 hands...But You gave your AUTHORITY away when you hit your child.... that actually showed weakness on your part...you lost control of the situation. Everything became jumbled up and instead of stopping for a moment, realizing you were really pissed off and figuring out to take care of one issue at a time....wife and son..2 issues you struck out...and used violence as a solution to the problem of getting your son to perform a task..

Children have to know their parents have limits (we all have them) and thats how they learn their own limits.... I believe spanking is necessary, but it should be the act and not physical pain that is important...like spanking with a newspaper, the sound is far worse than the sting....

I get off the boat RIGHT here....why should ANYONE respect YOU when this is your solution to the problem (you seem to think it's all right) ....

YOu have many many options far short of hitting.

My guess this is how it was done with you as a child, and your simply passing on this method of problem solving to your children...son like father....

What do you hope to accomplish by airing this story to the world? Justification from people who agree with you? From the above quotes it seems like you've already decided that you were right to do what you did.

Or are you going to weigh the opinions and reasoning from the replies and consider trying to change your behavior?

The important questions are, "why did I post this to a public forum?" and "what did/do I hope to accomplish by doing so?"

Actually, I disagree with the age 13 thing. The humiliation of being bent over your dad's knee at age 13 and having your backside smacked is IMHO more effective than being smacked about the mouth. My eldest daughter is 13. Even if my son was the same age, I would not dream of "smacking" him/her across the face.

Exactly was the example that you hoped to set to him?

Look, I have a lot of sympathy with you for losing it and doing what you did. I just think that you now have the opportunity of mending fences with him and with your wife. If done swiftly and correctly in a positive spirit (no yelling & cursing), I'm sure you will all move forward in mutual respect & loving.

LeRoux

I'm not going to join the hitting debate here.

I WILL say that me, and everyone I know got more than a few spankings, mouth smacks, belt whippin's, etc... when they were kids yet I don't know any guys in therapy or that abuse their children...

That being said you WERE right to expect him to clean up the mess, and not to let him get away with whining to Mom. She was wrong for contradicting you. The dog is a family pet, and he's part of the familiy right?

Reminds me of "The Simpsons" episode where no one wanted to take out the trash. The person who couldn't stack on the last piece, the one that fell off, had to take it out. :D

Do you deal with other adults the same way? Do you slap your co workers if they yell at you or disrespect you? Do you deal with your Mother or Father that way? Do you deal with your neighbors and Police Officers that way? Your son acted inappropriately, and that situation did need to be dealt with.

I am no expert on child rearing, and no one really is, but that type of physical contact with any child is both illegal and completely unnecessary. My father tried to put my head through a wall when I was 15 because I talked back to him. I haven't spoken to him in 10 years, and never will. I didn't learn to respect him or fear him that night. It only confirmed my growing suspicions that he was a pathetic and insecure intellectual inferior that didn't have enough interpersonal skills to control himself, never mind guide or educate anyone else.

I am not saying you are a bad parent or don't love your kids. I am saying this behavior is inappropriate. Seek help to control your violent actions. Hopefully you can discover some better tactics for dealing with your son and develop/ keep a good relationship with him, rather that drive him away. I wouln't call you an assh***, either. Good luck!

First off, I'm not a parent, nor do I play one on TV.

But here's my $0.42 anyway:

1. I think the root of the problem lies in the 'misdirection' between the parents in this case. Mr. AFJuvat wanted AFJuvat to clean up the dog mess, while Mrs. AFJuvat went against Mr. AFJuvat's wishes and stated that she would take care of it. If parents disagree on something like this, it is imperative that Mr and Mrs discuss this and come up with a decision that BOTH agree on, and present that to the child. This discussion should be done out of earshot of the child.

2. I was indeed spanked many times as a kid. (yeah, my therapist says I'm getting better! :eek: ) My parents grew up with the 'spare the rod, spoil the child' mentality. Would I spank my own child? Can't answer that - I don't have kids. Most likely, I wouldn't.

3. However, regarding punishment for disobedience: THAT I believe in. If a child disobeys a parent, punishment is necessary. But - said punishment should NEVER be executed in anger. Often, if a spanking occurs in the heat of the moment, it will be far greater a punishment than the crime deserves. Better for the parent to cool off and compose himself before the punishment is given. Besides, often the anguish of waiting for the 'verdict' is nearly as bad as the actual punishment.

-Z-man.

...and to think what the teachers did to us back in the day. I remember a kid getting smacked 55 times in the face in front of the entire class....both humiliating and painful. Usual parent respone was "if they hit you you probably deserved it."

Very well said, magilla...I am afraid that all too often the child physically beaten feels exactly as you do and the results all to the same.

Child rearing is an incredible balance of discipline and understanding, especially during the teen years: I've got one in zone and one on the cusp. I'm not Father Knows Best, but I've never hit my children and hope I never do.

This one is one you AFJuvat: Take the time and effort to repair your relationship with your son. Your no ********* if you can do that. Best of luck.

I'm with Moses on this one. I had spankings as a kid, good ones, but my father would never have slapped or punched my face, in public or in private. I agree with this. In fact, what I found is that spanking is also unnecessary. And to take it a step further, what I really found is that being an effective father without doling out physical punishment got me more respect than if I had resorted to violence.

And then there is the yelling. In my business (or anyone's), the first one to lose their temper also loses the issue, whatever that may be. Yelling ensures you are not heard, and not respected. You may not believe in time-outs for kids, but they are essential for adults of yelling enters the picture.

Oh and by the way, this talk I have heard from time to time about yelling and violence being a cultural value....is bull****. Pure bull****.