I have a really hard time getting worked up about this. After adjusting for inflation, gas is just about as cheap as ever. When you guys add up the amount you spend on Starbucks and Evian, which costs more, gas or beverages?

I don't drop $60 at Starbucks . . .

Crock of schit, my friend. Is it as cheap as it was 5 years ago when I paid 99cents a gallon for it? And the economy was on fire, w/ jobs growing on trees?

If you think that gasoline should be $3.00 @ gallon in the U.S., just say so. But skip the BS about how cheap it is. At $2.00 @ gallon, people w/ typical American pig rides were spending $100 @ week on gas in CA., now it's $150. That is $600.00 @ month if you are unlucky enough to drive a pick-up or SUV, or any other powerful car. That's a lot of scratch to be giving over to Bush's cronies every month. :eek:

I'm over being angry about it, like every other F'ed-up thing that has happened in the last 5 years beyond my control I have to just accept and move on. The good news is that I am selling my Volvo turbo that is a pig and getting a VW TDI that gets ~45-50 mpg, (can't stomach handing over my hard-earned to the cogsucker oil companies), I'd rather give it all to the car company that makes that brilliant vehicle. That is going to be the wave of the future, IMO. Big $$ for the whole conservation industry.

The bad news is that cars as a hobby, (911s), are history for me for now. :cool:

Starbucks and Evian have not gone up at all, AFAIK.

I paid $51 and change a few days ago. I'm glad I have a very short drive to work. My wife stays home with the kid so between both of us we vary between $30 and $100 a month for gas in all three cars. Maybe a bit more than that now with the higher prices. Last month we only had to fill up her Camry. My truck and 911 had enough in the tank from the previous month. Even at $3 a gallon we'd average below $100 a month. I'm due to replace the truck though, and I am leaning towards a new Tacoma, but I wish Toyota made a hybrid version. I would buy it in a second.

"Starbucks and Evian have not gone up at all, AFAIK."

Gas and coffee companies use the same strategy.

A look back in recent history:
Just a few years ago, a regular cup of coffee at the now-ubiquitous neighborhood coffee shop was 75 cents a cup with free refills. The price jumped (with no free refills) in response to a world-wide coffee shortage.

Now, there's a glut of coffee and bean prices have been depressed for quite awhile due to new sources (Viet Nam for one). The price of coffee is still going up.

Likewise, the petroleum industry marketing guys are slowly getting us used to increased gas prices. If it goes down temporarily from $2.35 to $2.10 we're content. Once we're used to filling up at that price, they'll jack it up to $2.50, then bring it down to $2.35 and we'll be content once more before the next go-round.

The question is, at what point, if at all, will the consumer finally realize the ploy and say enough is enough? Without a coherent energy policy by the current administration, I'm afraid this will be the usual pattern. Sorta like subsidies to big business without the middle-man (govt.) to dole out tax revenues.

Sherwood

Are your roads okay? Are you satisfied that there are enough roadways, they are wide enough, and they do not need resurfacing? If your state needs nothing in terms of road construction or maintenance, then raise questions about whether this gas tax is necessary. That's not the case in my state. We're bumping the gas tax up and I'm comfortable with that. Not because I am some sort of government-lover, but because this is the way we fund improvements and maintenance of our roadways, and right now they desperately need both.

I wonder if you'll still be saying that when your electrical system goes tits-up.

I'm not sure if you have any background in ecomonics, but surely you know the study revolves around statistical evidence, not emotional rants. Gas prices are high, but not historically high. Now these are macroeconomic statistics, and I realize that you may not be seeing this trend in your area. But you are throwing out blanket statements ("every other F'ed-up thing that has happened in the last 5 years"), so you can at least take a look at some nationwide evidence proving that what you're saying is not correct.

What is the Real Price of Gas?
http://www.chartoftheday.com/20030827.gif

This stuff is fun to talk about, because it's one of the few off-topic areas where indisputable statistical evidence can be used. Unless you're one of the few who deny that inflation adjusts nominal prices downward over time....


Denis, there is nothing "unlucky" about driving a gas hog. If you're going to complain about high gas prices, the least you can do is drive a fuel-efficient car. This is like those people who don't vote, then complain about politics. Too much emotion, not enough understanding of the issues.

While I appreciate your attempt to draw larger meaning from my two-line post, I never said gas should or shouldn't be $3 per gallon. I also never said it was cheap. I just said I'm not worked up about the prices. So you're calling BS on an incorrect interpretation of my words, and at the same time you have not presented a single fact to support your argument that gas is way too expensive.

Just because someone made a chart showing gasoline as being 'cheap' doesn't mean we have to lie back and take it.

Anyone have the data to make a chart with the price of gas tracking with household income and maybe even the cost of other common items?

The "cost of other common items" is the entire purpose of the Consumer Price Index (CPI), which is the indicator of inflation. So the chart I posted does incorporate common items' costs. Probably not fiberglass resin and race tires, though....

Household income is another subject, and I don't have time to dig, but I believe the numbers will hold. Of course, you have to decide what to include as income: should asset appreciation (ie your house) be in there? That should start another big argument.... :D

Actually, the composition of the CPI itself is deserving of it's own thread.

Is there a source for raw data on this stuff, ie delimited text files or XLS files? Even better - a bigh server running oracle or somesuch that I could run SQL queries against. :)

That chart is interesting in that it does not include the last year or two, which I'm guessing would show gasoline to be a lot more expensive now than anytime in the last 20 years. Adjusted for inflation.

As for being emotional, I can't see how anyone can take current events laying down. But that's just me. ;) Bush started a war, against better advice and w/ predictably disasterous results, plus some not predicted horrible results. Like $3.00 @ gallon gas and record-smashing profits for anyone in the oil business, from slave-owning Saudi *****bags to corrupt scumfuch oil company CEOs. At least I didn't see it coming, did you? :)

I agree that anyone who has owned a house in a hot market like CA. for several years is experiencing a lot of paper wealth, (or real wealth if they sold out), right now. But that is a whole 'nother thread, and not a healthy thing for the economy in any sustained way, IMO. So-called "working people" have been priced out of even a ghetto house in L.A. if they don't already own, and the bottom half of the country has not seen the bonanza that you speak of. My own personal economy has slowed down in recent years, (peaked in the '90s), but I don't own a house. People all across the country, and the world, will pay record prices for oil this year. Not just RE bubble recipients in the few hot markets.

You sound like a good Republican, though. Use the RE bubble, which is propping up an economy that would be otherwise in the toilet, (and Bush can take zero legitimate credit for), defend the oil companies' gouging, hey, all is well...... :cool:

well, it was $52 to fill the 911, $29 to fill the Subie, and $8 to fill the Triumph this weekend. Guess which I took to work today.

The 911 now gets filled up for track days and the once-a-week workout drive. But that's about it. The Subie splits daily driver duty with the motorcycle. I suppose I could have bought a Prius instead, but the Triumph is more fun...and cost 1/4 the price...and I could get it now as opposed to going on a waiting list.

Denis hit the main irritation point here: record profits by the oil companies.

Actually, Todd, I've heard the Prius' mileage isn't all it's cracked up to be.

they claim 60mpg, but I think it is more like high 40's, low 50's.

oh yeah, and how long do the batteries last, and how much to replace?

Thom: It is, you just have to know how to drive it.

My wife and I were seeing 50+ mpg driving around the Cincy area in my in-law's Prius.

It's all about the chipped TDI, baby. ;)

TDIs have been the schit it Europe for years, proven reliability and loooong life, (unlike the hybrids w/ their giant cell phone battery), and just great, great cars. I love fast diesels. Have you guys heard about the new MB E320 CDI? 200hp, quicker from 0-60 than the gas model and ~40mpg on the highway. And will last a million miles and have killer resale even w/ high miles, (like all diesels in general), runs on a wino's piss if necessary, etc....

Awesome cars. :cool:

I drove a SEAT TDI (like a VW Golf) on the Nurburgring, and instantly got addicted to the low-end torque. Even with only 80HP or so and a 4K redline, it was a blast. I agree, we need more of them instead of hybrids for everyone. Unfortunately, the enviro-locos won't allow them in California.

How about the new law our CA Legislature just passed, allowing HYBRIDS in the carpool lane, but not fuel-efficient gasoline cars? Talk about a missed opportuntiy to spur some research into fuel efficiency and alternative fuels, at no taxpayer expense.

Oops, I'm starting to sound like a right-winger again...save the Earth!

Not to change the topic in off-topic...., but what new cars get the best MPG??