Hugh, I'm not sure you're responding to my question (this thread is getting pretty convoluted) but the reason I asked for people to post instances in which they personally had aimed or fired a gun at another person in self-defense, rather than stories heard from friends or the media, or stories about how having a gun has made them "feel"safer, is because I'm interested in knowing the actual frequency with which the participants on this thread, most of whom seem to be gun owners, have ever actually used the gun in self-defense. And the reason I specified instances in which the gun's been "aimed or fired" is because I figure that is an extremely serious step to take, and means that the person wasn't merely apprehensive, but rather that he really did need and use the gun.

Fear and apprehension based on media reports, third-hand stories, dodgy neighborhoods, and suspicious people walking around - those reflect what people perceive "might" happen. I'm trying to ask what has "actually" happened.

So far exactly one person has reported such an incident, although I'm not clear if it actually meets the criteria of having "aimed or fired" at another person.

To make my position clear, I think I should have the right to own a gun if I wish to, subject to reasonable regulation (e.g. am not a violent felon, am appropriately trained, etc). In fact I do own a number of guns. And the reason for my desire to own a gun is my business, whether it be for sport, as a collector, or based on my perception of the degree of risk in which I live. But I am still interested in just how accurate or erroneous such a perception might be. If it turns out that the people who own guns for self-defense have never in fact had any occasion to use them - well, that would be interesting.

Why do I own a hand gun,? I, for one, am a man of few words , If at 2am (even fewer words), I am forced to get off my fat white Porsche driving ass, to confront an intruder, you can bet I won't be trying to convince the perp through conversation that he should reconsider his choice of employment.
YMMV

Uhh, Tim that was 60 words and one acronym. Thank God you can't shoot on the internet.

I thought that was short....to the point and clearly stated. I'll have to cut back.

I got email from my buddy who is a civilian contractor over in Iraq. He's hooked up with the range master to get checked out and get a weaon issued. The other day his chopper had to do an emergency landing due to a mechanical in "indian country." He and another contractor were the only ones without sidearms. The rest of the group set up a perimeter with cover from the other 2 choppers while they repaired the bird. Another time he had to be in downtown Bahgdad and it wasn't pretty.

Now *he* needs a frickin' gun...

.....if your Pooschey breaks down in the Bronx?

Shootin' thangs is fun, ahyup!

I'm guilty of two things here: laziness and ignorance.

Someone hinted that this subject had been brought up before. I didn't bother to use the search function before starting the thread and it wouldn't have mattered anyway since, I think by now, we've discussed every topic under the sun.

I tried to phrase my query in such a way so as not to evoke strong emotional responses. Well that's just freaking impossible with this crowd!

I appreciate all the reasons stated here about gun ownership. I've never considered owning one but have fired a few and know that if I had to fire one again, I'd miss my target. It'd be useless in my hands.

I think I was accused of thinking I live in a utopian environment. Brother, I was born in the PI too. Even though we left when I was young, I knew it was a dangerous place. My Dad had a great job in a US corporation so we had cash. He never owned a gun and never feared for our safety. I just follow his example: Never put yourself or your family in harm's way. If the situation doesn't feel right, get out quick.

Now, if my home were to be invaded (first let me say that's damned near impossible since my burglar/intruder alarm would wake the neighboring town and the cops would be here lickety-split, ask me how I know), I'd just whip out my nun-chuks and go to town on the bad guys...chicks dig dudes with skills

:D

Some observations
Homicide and shooting statistics: How many relate to criminal deaths or woundings ie they were either the aggressor or not an innocent participant?
How many times has the fact that someone was armed and produced their handgun defused a situation without a shooting, eg an aggressor deciding to run off? (No stats on that one)
The perception of a threat is very subjective as is different people's awareness levels. My awareness level is high - not naturally, but by training.
Have I ever been involved in a defensive/gun situation? The answer is yes, both serious and defused, the details are my business and still stressful after many years. It also has a lot to do with what many see as an extreme position on the subject for a middleaged woman.

Personally I would not put all my trust in an intruder system or police response time. Especially against a professionally targetted intrusion. That however, is your choice, your personal risk analysis and defensive plan. And of course your acceptance of any consequences.
Please don't bring knives or nunchuks to a gunfight. You will lose.

Man, it was a joke. Have you not seen Napoleon Dynamite? You guys and gal are too serious.

Also, if I didn't have an alarm system and owned a gun instead, I don't think I'd feel any safer in my own home. I'm a sound sleeper and the chances that I'd hear an intruder enter my house are nil. IMO, a big guard dog is a great substitute for an alarm system but I think I'd rather pay a monthly monitoring fee than scoop large piles of **** every day.

I'm not against alarms, it's just not all the solution. Dogs are also a good idea for early warning.
I haven't seen or heard of Napoleon Dynamite. I have seen a very dear friend who used to be an international martial arts champion perform with nun chucks. Very impressive and I don't want to imagine the damage they could inflict. I believe US police consider them to be a serious enough threat that they will shoot the user from a distance if under attack. My friend however, puts her trust in a 357 magnum.

I saw this today: Any thoughts?
Florida Governor Signs Deadly Force Law

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee.

Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes.

The new law expands that doctrine to include people in public places who feel threatened and could be subject to death or great bodily harm.

"To suggest that you can't defend yourself against a rapist, who's trying to drag you into an alley, or against a carjacker who's trying to drag you out of your car is nonsense," said Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association.

"The ability to protect yourself, your children or your spouse, is important, no matter where you are."

Critics of the new law, called the "Stand Your Ground" bill, have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves in their homes but say the bill will create a "Wild West" mentality in public, where residents may shoot first and ask questions later.

"There are going to be a lot of repercussions," said Rep. Eleanor Sobel, a Democrat. "You could have someone reaching into their pocket and if the person felt threatened he could shoot."

Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that homeowners have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded the doctrine to include employees in their workplace and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles.

Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The new law removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," Rep. Irv Slosberg, a Democrat, said during recent debate on the bill.

I think running away may often be the sensible option. I don't think I should be legally obliged to, especially in my home.

I don't like jeb bush, but for once he has signed off on a decent law for our state.

Isa, I think it's a big step in the right direction. Although the media is having a field day with their reports, like Florida is the new wild west. If you really read the law it is only an extension of the castle doctrine. It really means you do not have to flee to avoid confrontation in the event of bodily harm in a place you have the legal right to be.

Open carry law should be next. The media will have a field day with that one.

Topic on PP OT BBS in 2010: Why own nunchucks? :D

re: the Florida law, do something stupid, and you shall be publicly hung the next day. Be responsible and all will be well.

Targa - we had an open carry law when the CCW permits were first allowed - the loophole was closed though...

OMG that was post 666.....yikes!

In FL, do you need a CCW to have a weapon in your car? I ask only because here (Louisiana) we have had a law similar to what was just passed in FL for a long time now. IIRC, ours was brought on as a result of a wave of car jackings in mid-late '90s and packaged with or as part of the law that makes your car an extension of your home.

And didn't the rash of car jackings almost stop completely with the passing of that bill?

- Skip

Ive lived here since the fall of '95 which was right around the time this law went into effect. At that time New Orleans and Baton Rouge were both very high on the murder capitol/violent crime scale when compared to the rest of the country. The car jackings were completely out of control. Texas had recently passed a lot of CCW legislation and there was a lot buzz in the papers here about the positive results they were seeing.

I remember a one or two stories here right after the law passed about a few car jackers taking the big dirt nap, but I dont know the statistics. It makes perfect sense that this would make people think twice about threatening another person in a car.

Ive never had anyone approach my car in a threatening manner since I have lived here. Being aware of my surroundings is what keeps me out of these situations, not having a gun with me. Don't get me wrong, though. No matter the crime statistics, I still keep a boom stick handy just in case. :)

I don't carry a gun around, or in my car because in my experience and the experience of others where I live it is unnecessary. If I truly thought that there was a likelyhood of needing a gun, all the laws in the world could not keep me from packing.

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6", as the old saying goes. ;)

I would probably never live in a place where crime was so rampant, (what kind of *****hole would that be), I'd move to the middle of nowhere first. I agree w/ Isabo, though, about the basic human right to protect one's self against anyone meaning physical harm, including a violent psychopath twice my strength who just got out of prison. Granted, that is not an everyday situation, but I'm calm as a budha knowing that in my domicile I am safe as a baby in mother's arms. Thank you Mr. Glock, wherever you are. :)

Shuie, no you do not need a CCW to have it in your car. It MUST be secured though. In a snapped holster, in the glove box, in a zipped case, brief case,hell a shoe box but it has to have a lid. You must have to do at least one thing to get to it. That holds true even if you do have a CWP. Crazy enough though if you live in a place where you have to walk though a "common area" and don't have a CWP, you can be arrested. Example. Move the gun from the car to the apartment or VV, no CWP, you are in violation.

heaven forbid you greet an intruder with a broom. At least they will have a good laugh before they kill you.

boom, not broom :)

I used to volunteer my time in the local gun shop and I know that all of the guys who worked there carried open when they would run errands, etc, off of the property. Open carry is technically legal here. What Ive heard is that you can be cited for public intimidation or disturbing the peace, but not for carrying a weapon.

Texas is kicking around a bill that will allow citizens to carry a handgun in their vehicle without a CCW. That would be nice for me, since I'm too damn lazy to get off my butt and go get my CHL!

Open carry is technically legal in many places. Even where I used to live in urban SoCal, you could technically strap a pistol to your hip and walk down the street. What the police would do, though, is take you into custody as a mental case. So an officer explained to me some years ago.