I used to hate illegals, but someone changed my mind.

[pbs911]

I...

[84porsche]

That is very cool that you can change your thinking. I really don't know if I am a republican or a democrat because I go issue by issue when I vote.

I had a similiar experience with illegal immigrants several years ago I worked in a restaurant as a cashier. A family of illegal immigrants, by family I mean father, mother, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters etc. worked for the same owner and everyone of them made minimum wage. One night the father was deported back to Mexico and I offered a little cash to help the family wherever I could but what's funny is he was back working the very next day.

It is amazing how screwed up the immigration system is. My father came here on a student visa in 1972 and it took almost 10-15 years to get his citzenship. And now the whole system seems to be failing but I could be wrong. I wish these people all my best but we have to improve the system so that everyone has a fair chance at becoming a US Citizen.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by pbs911
Republicans are generally against illegal immigration. No visa, no right to be here - go home! It is simple, right?

No, not the way I understand it. Unions (Dems) are the biggest anti-illegals group in the country. Rich Republicans are often villified for allowing illegals "for the cheap labor". So without getting into the deeper parts of your post, I think you have it a bit backwards on the political parties.

But in reality it's probably NOT a right/left issue for most. It is probably a "does it directly affect me"/"not in my back yard" issue.

Illegal means illegal, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to earn citizenship either. Just do it right like those from the orient. Maybe it's too hard, but again...illegal is illegal. That being said I can totally understand why they DO come here illegally and I can't blame them.

[pwd72s]

So, marry her, make her legal???

[Neilk]

I love it when people say "illegal is illegal". Does that mean you never speed? It is illegal you know?

The whole immigration system needs to be fixed. How about guest visa for Central Americans so that they can work legally in the US and PAY income taxes? That would at least some of the budgetary problems. It seems as if Bush was headed that way until 9/11...

[fintstone]

I agree with Len...Illegal is illegal. I understand why people would try to enter illegally...and would probablyt do the same in similar circumstances. That does not mean we should allow it. If the same people would put similar energy and effort in developing their own countries, they would soon have no reason to come here.

[speeder]

Paul, I'm glad to hear that you met someone nice, but still your post is a little confusing to me. You used to "hate illegals"(?) I am for enforcing, and changing immigration law because they are dysfunctional and a mess, but I've never hated or blamed people for wanting to leave a 3rd world cesspool and move to the U.S.

It is a difficult issue because human beings are involved, and in fact for the most part they are good people. Still, the current system is a disaster on every level. Blame the system, though, not the people. And Republicans are huge supporters of cheap labor that don't report labor law violations, so that means "don't ask/don't tell" where they came from.

[350HP930]

Immigration is a lot like a life boat. Sure you want the best for people and letting them in the boat would be very good for them, especially if they are very deserving of being saved. The problem is that if you allow too many people to clamor into the boat at once in an unregulated way your boat will be capsized or sunk.

[oldE]

Immigrants! My family has had nothing but trouble with immigrants, ever since we came to this country! Funny how an encounter with a real person can ruin a perfectly good stereotype. Glad you met her.
Les

[dtw]

Originally posted by pwd72s
So, marry her, make her legal???

This loophole, for all practical purposes, has been closed.

[RickM]

Originally posted by Neilk
How about guest visa for Central Americans so that they can work legally in the US and PAY income taxes? That would at least some of the budgetary problems. It seems as if Bush was headed that way until 9/11...

This is what most are saying. However, if one must register and pay taxes then they are no longer cheap labor. Part of cheap is being unaccountable on different levels.

We also can't afford to have an invisible population in this day and age.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by procon & DTW
My only issue with illegal immigration...

That immigrants are afforded the luxury of free health care, while citizens are not.

This loophole, for all practical purposes, has been closed.

Bingo! They come into the country and use the system and all of its benefits (if they are able) and do not support it.

My family immigrated from Europe in 1860, did it legally as you should. I can understand the feelings that Paul has but its still illegal. The fact that they are hard working and good people is excellent but jumping across the fence and running North is not the way to do it.

DTW, this is not a loophole and is not closed. An American can marry a foreigner and they are allowed in the country. May take a while and some paperwork but it will never be "not allowed."

JoeA

[gaijindabe]

I'm with speed... You used to "hate" them? really? And your a doctor???

I would think that the education that gets one to a Phd level would involve some kind of struggle and some kind of insight in ones fellow man...

Everyone of these folks has a story to tell. Where they grew up, how they got here, how they survive. Just because you mow lawns, clean plates and scrub toilets does not make you an unworthy person.

My problem with immigration today is the unfairness. We are a nation of laws and rules, and the reason this place works reasonably well, is that we follow them. For the sake of cheap labor, we are corrupting our own culture.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by oldE
Immigrants! My family has had nothing but trouble with immigrants, ever since we came to this country! Funny how an encounter with a real person can ruin a perfectly good stereotype. Glad you met her.
Les

Who said ANYTHING about not wanting or allowing immigrants?

Perhaps we should just do away with ALL immigration laws? If you're not in favor of that, are you dispariging immigrants as well? Such a silly argument.

[dtw]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
DTW, this is not a loophole and is not closed. An American can marry a foreigner and they are allowed in the country. May take a while and some paperwork but it will never be "not allowed."

JoeA

How is an illegal alien marrying an American to gain a green card and citizenship not a loophole? Further, marriage to an illegal alien now does NOTHING to help them gain status. If you've got more intimate knowledge of USCIS forms I-130 and I-485 than I do, please send me the number of your immigration attorney and I'll fire mine today.

[Superman]

Nice try Len, but it doesn't pass the "straight face test." Just because Dubya cannot clamp down on illegal immigration without stepping on his own dick does not mean the Republican party is not opposed to it. It is similarly untrue to assert that unions are the biggest anti-illegals group in the country. Yes, they oppose illegal bahavior of many kinds like veryone else, but unions are fighting outsourcing not immigration. They tend to favor protectionist stuff (like opposing NAFTA, for example), but they are certainly not anti-immigration. It is certainly amusing to watch the Republican party's schizophrenic approach to this issue. That party has to hate immigration, but encourage it.

The thread-starting story is amusing and uplifting too. It certainly flies in the face of some folks' theories that we become more conservative as we get older and smarter. I like to think selfish people are simply unaware of how the world works, how societies operate, how families operate, etc. I know that's naive, but the alternative is to believe they do understand how things work, and are hoping to take advantage of others. Raising the Mexican standard of living would reduce the motivation to immigrate, but we'd have to make some sacrifice in order to accomplish this. It would be a kind of charity. And it would be the right thing to do. But then.....

Where would we get the cheap, hard-working labor that our economic system feeds from? Good luck with your conservative political leanings on this one. It's easy to defend from a selfish economic perspective, but hard to justify from a human standpoint.

[pbs911]

...

[lendaddy]

Sup, I have NO idea what you're talking about. What exactly is it that has led you to believe Republicans are anti-immigration? Seriously, do you have a proposal or agenda item or whatever...that I haven't seen yet from my party?
And if you don't think the Unions aren't anti-immigration (both legal and illegal) you are desperatley in need of an education on the matter. The bottom line is they see it as "furriners" stealing their jobs.

[creaturecat]

FWIW - Mexicans are among the finest and hardest working people that I, personally, have ever met.

[stuartj]

Its admirable that you can change your views based on that type of personal exposure and experience. A dehumanised, removed concept such as "illegal immigrant" has been changed for you.

Has this experience changed your opinions on other matters, where befroe you may have applied certain preconceptions?

Stuart