If Ducati=Ferrari then what =Porsche

pookie · 05-22-2005, 07:55 PM

I am considering buying my first Duc but have been told some horror stories about maintenance. So if a Ducati is equal to Ferrari is there a bike that is equal to Porsche? I am considering a Ducati Monster and was trying to decide how bad maintenance would really be. I found the site below which seems like it would be a big help, but I was wondering what the opinion on the Ducati owners here was on maintenance.

http://www.ducatisuite.com/links.html

Thanks in advance
Ryan

Saintly · 05-22-2005, 08:06 PM

Have a look at the BMWs
the K1200R is like the monster and the K1200S is like a 999

89911 · 05-22-2005, 08:43 PM

BMW! I kind of always think of them as motorcycle company first, car company second.

Saintly · 05-22-2005, 09:02 PM

i like the BMWs due to the shaft drive.. i hate lubing a chain.
also, i like that when i jap bike is reaching then end of it's life (in miles driven) the BMW is just getting started.

speeder · speeder's Garage

BMWs are great bikes and I've owned several, but they are not analogous to Porsche cars. If they had a rich racing/performance rep, then maybe, but they don't. Older BMWs are closer to a VW van in terms of car/bike comparisons, and the new ones are great but slow as crap in terms of the bike world.

And Ducatis, great as they are, are not Ferraris. They are "the Ferraris of motorcycles" because they are so Italian, etc.., but let's not get carried away. If the entry level Ducati cost ~$60k, then maybe.

Analogies are fun and all, but they don't always match up so perfectly. I would suggest familiarising yourself w/ the various MCs out there and making an informed decision. FWIW, BMW just came out w/ the closest thing to a super bike that they've ever made but it still has a shaft. (The bike equivilant of front wheel drive if you like analogies).

Nader · 04:24 AM

Honda's NSX is ~$80K
Ferrari's 360 is about twice that

Honda's 1 liter sportbike is ~$11K
Ducati's 1 liter superbike is about twice that

Ducati has the similar sex appeal, outstanding performance (at the expense of reliability), mystique, motorsports heritage, and amazing exhaust note that also characterize Ferraris.

So yes, the Ferrari analogy is a good one.

As for the Porsche equivalent of a motorcycle, you'd be talking about a quircky, German-engineered, air-cooled boxer design. Like this BMW r100s (which was one of THE fastest sports bikes of its day):

Hardly a VW van.

Nader · 05-23-2005, 04:20 AM

And when you put the Porsche of motorcycles next to the Ferrari of motorcycles, you get this:

cnielsen · 05-23-2005, 05:24 AM

I personally think that the air cooled ducs are more like Porsches than Ferraris. My 900ss is very easy to work on, hand built, looks beautiful and definately has a personality just like my Porsches. Don't let the valve adjustments scare you. There is a video made that walks you through every step of the process...invest in $100 worth of tools and you can easily do it on your own.

Go for it!!!

Anton · 05-23-2005, 06:02 AM

There are no maintenance issues with Ducs. There are issues with some dealers screwing customers over with inflated maintenace costs. Valve job on an air cooled monster takes 2 hours. On a fully faired 999, maybe twice that. Add a little extra for shims and what not, and its still pretty reasonable.

Steve Carlton · 05-23-2005, 06:13 AM

A lot of people say Ducati is the Ferrari of motorcycles, and it's valid in the sense of them being Italian, sexy, and (mostly) fast. Personally, I think MV Agusta fits the bill better.

The analogy of BMW bikes to Porsches is valid in some ways, but the overall fit isn't quite as complete. BMW hasn't (until recently) been as sport-oriented, their bikes being heavy, safe, and well made; more touring and comfort oriented. I think of them being analogous to Mercedes in many ways. More so, really than the BMW cars.

BMWs are not "slow as crap." They're not built for a racetrack like most sportbikes. But on the street, they'll more than hold their own. See this article from BIKE magazine: "R11S bestest bike ever" per BIKE magazine A friend of mine who races AMA got smoked by a couple of guys riding GSs, BMWs big trailie. And the analogy of a shaft to front wheel drive is ill-informed.

The newest K-bikes are state-of-the-art fast, both street and track.

Ryan- are you planning on doing your own maintenence? If so, once you learn how to adjust the valves it's no biggie. If you have a shop do it, it will be needed comparitively often and it's not cheap. And it also depends to some extent which motor the Monster has. A Monster is an excellent starter bike, with unique and sexy style. If you're looking for ruthless efficiency and reliability, then the Japanese bikes are the 'Porsches' you're looking for.

greglepore · 05-23-2005, 07:02 AM

Echo the above-2v Duc maintainance is not a the nightmare some picture it to be, its just that there IS maintainence, unlike many Japanese bikes.

pookie · 05-23-2005, 12:16 PM

Well I was going after a 01 Monster a gray color, but got beat out for it. I may have a line on a Monster 750.

My comparison to Ferrari/Ducati is that it seems on other forums I have read where people are actually afraid of the maintenance on both these machines. The Ducatis/Ferraris are beautiful sexy fast machines that require expensive maintenance.

I was hoping to do the same thing with the bike I choose that I did with my 911. When I bought it (the 911) I knew nothing about it, now I know almost every nut or bolt on my car. I do my own valve adjustments on the car and was hoping to do the same for the bike.

My comparison to Porsche would be an extremely attractive, tight handling, quick, fun to drive machine that I can work on in my own garage and not have to take to the mechanic every time something needed to be done.

Thanks for the advice

5axis · 05-23-2005, 12:22 PM

I'm diggin these 1100s's They look great and seem to be a good match for sub-sonic street riding.

Check out the vid clips at this site, and a cool pic of the bike too.

http://users.conwaycorp.net/bswartz/

motion · 05-23-2005, 12:48 PM

The 1100s are good bikes but have serious flaws. I still have nerve damage in my little fingers from a 4500 mile on my R1100S a couple years ago.

5axis · 05-23-2005, 01:02 PM

Richard, when you get a chance could you elaborate on the flaws? I have had thoughts of a S in my head for a while now. How did you damage your hand?
I have gotten pretty good at riding crossed up. Left hand, thumb and forefinger holding the throttle while I let some feeling get back into the stop/go fast hand.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I think Aprilia would be closer to Porsche. The Rotax twin is a bombproof engine, and the bike is stylish but also all business.

Steve Carlton · 05-23-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motion
The 1100s are good bikes but have serious flaws. I still have nerve damage in my little fingers from a 4500 mile on my R1100S a couple years ago.

Huh? The boxers have a distinct vibe, that's for sure. But I've almost never heard of anyone having a problem with it. The 4 cylinder vibes are usually of a frequency that causes problems, and that was my experience with a Suzuki 1200 Bandit. I consider myself sensitive to trouble in this regard, and haven't had problems with the boxer (or most twins, except a Guzzi). And I've seen it mentioned that a lot of problems have more to do with certain types of pressure on one's hands and bones. That would probably be more true of the R1100Ss with the lower clip-ons. Is that what you had?

Are you saying you did a 4,500 mile ride? I could see an extended exposure aggravating a problem with lots of bikes.

motion · 05-24-2005, 07:23 AM

I just did a 5,000 mile ride on my 1150GS Adventure and had absolutely no problems with handlebar buzz...

That said, the main problems with the R1100S are the engine characteristics and the seating position. The engine was tuned to put the power higher up on the torque curve (my bike was the Boxer Cup Prep). They are damn buzzy when you ride them like a sport bike should be ridden. BMW did this to achieve stratospheric HP - all 86 of them. Yes, the bike is a slug. It will barely pull 115mph on the top end - and you'll need a 10 mile straight to get that.

Back to the seating position... it is wayyyyyy too aggressive for this type of bike. Its nearly as aggressive as my Duc 998. Its fine for straight line, high speed riding - say above 85 mph, but in the twisties it sucks. Why? Because the bike is too long. An aggressive seating position is fine if the distance from seat to bars is short. It allows you to 'crawl' up on the tank and attack with the front end of the bike. But the S is very long. Its a long reach to those bars, and you find yourself having to give a lot of force to the bars to turn the bike. The forward position of the bike puts too much weight on your wrists, which exacerbates the buzzing coming through the bars.

I liked the bike a lot, and if your riding style is straight line, high speed, it might be a good bike. Otherwise, there are too many other bikes that are far more capable.

Just my $0.02

Don Ro · 05-24-2005, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by motion
Yes, the bike is a slug. It will barely pull 115mph on the top end - and you'll need a 10 mile straight to get that.

115 mph in a 10 mile straight? Amazing.
How did she do after you up-shifted from 4th?

.

motion · 05-24-2005, 09:30 AM

Don - That was my particular bike with full-size BMW bags. Who knows, maybe my speedo was pessimistic, lol. That would be a first. Without a doubt, some guys are getting 135-145 from their bikes.

Here's another guy with a similar lousy top speed: Top speed disappoinment.....

But ya gotta admit, for a 'sport bike' they are slugs.

I'm sure Loren will chime in here soon with his impressions.