Dick Durbin

[Mule]

Earlier this week Dick(head) Durbin, US Senator from Illinois, saying that what we're doing is equivalent to nazi death camps, soviet gulags and Cambodian slaughter camps. This SOB should be shot. He must not get the History Channel. If he did he would see that these people are closer to "The Paris Hilton" than Auschwitz.

Where do people get the idea that that these "combatants" have the same rights as American citizens? I'm not saying that all is fair. But on the same hand, they are not "guests." We cook meals for this slime according to their religious beliefs. We provide them with korans & holy oil. We don't allow our people to touch the koran with bare skin. The must wear gloves & use both hands when holding the koran (to show proper respect). I don't remember hearing about the nazis preparing food with the dietary concerns of the Jews in mind. In protest, I've been using a koran for toilet paper. How many korans have been burned up by these POS's bombings?

So how many democrats have condemned this statement? Zero, that's it, zero. So just like the muslims that dont condemn the terrorists, they must agree. Al jezerra had Dick(head) Durbin's statement on all their broadcasts immediately. There will no doubt be US servicemen's blood spilled due to this worthless POS.

[Neilk]

Let's put his exact quote into this:

When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has occurred here [at Guantanamo Bay]--I almost hesitate to put them in the [Congressional] Record, and yet they have to be added to this debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report:

On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime--Pol Pot or others--that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.

END QUOTE

I think if we read the actual quote, he is saying that what is happening in Guantanamo is un-American.

I gotta get back to work, but I think things need to be put in context.

[Mule]

You failed. Do you think these goat smellin' SOBs had ac in the mud hut they lived in? They were shackled? It's a freakin' prison. People get shackled in prison. AC on high? OK if your choice is A. chilly room or B. gas chamber, I don't know about you, but I'm picking chilly room every time. Durbin is an utter buffoon.

[Rikao4]

to make a shouffle....one must crack eggs
they may be uncomfortable..but it's not breaking bones or pulling fingernails , just how far do some of you think YOU would go to protect you family or Country
Durbin has never served , never even been to Gitmo, FBI..well if they had worked a little harder..
me..send him to Gitmo...chain his a$$ to the ceiling and leave him there.
let OBL recite a song about vestal virgins,
Rika

[lendaddy]

It's just a really asinine thing to say. Think of what this is going to mean to the arab world, I mean a US Senator claiming we run camps on par with the Nazis and PolPot! What an idiot. He used those trms for shock value and gave no thought to how he would empower the enemy. It really is unforgivable in my opinion.

It's not even a matter of his lack of perspective in the silly comparison, it's the fact that he doesn't care if he comforts or stirs the enemy. Again, what an idiot!

[Mule]

Can you say sedition?

[widebody911]

So basically what you're saying that taking someone who has been neither charged with or conviced of a crime, and subject them to various forms of mistreatment and torture, is "OK" just so long as nobody else find out. That's what I'm reading. You're more concerned that word of this gets back to the Arab world than the actual mistreatment itself.

There will no doubt be US servicemen's blood spilled due to this worthless POS.

You must be referring to GWB; yes, there has.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by widebody911
So basically what you're saying that taking someone who has been neither charged with or conviced of a crime, and subject them to various forms of mistreatment and torture, is "OK" just so long as nobody else find out. That's what I'm reading. You're more concerned that word of this gets back to the Arab world than the actual mistreatment itself.

There will no doubt be US servicemen's blood spilled due to this worthless POS.

You must be referring to GWB; yes, there has.

Huh? These are just random citizens of Iraq and Afganistan? Well yes then, by all means release them. See I thought these were enemy combatants/POW's. You know like we have held in every other war? But if these guys were just pizza delivery guys and mailmen.......well ofcourse I apologize.

[M.D. Holloway]

consider them "proto-prisoners" - they may not fit into the tidy definition as laid out by the Genve Convention or by conventional international law. Prehaps they fit in between but do present a risk. 200 years ago, the reasons to keep someone captive were very differnt than today.

We are developing and evolving - bones hurt when they grow! (they also hurt when they break...)

[techweenie]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Huh? These are just random citizens of Iraq and Afganistan? Well yes then, by all means release them. See I thought these were enemy combatants/POW's. You know like we have held in every other war? But if these guys were just pizza delivery guys and mailmen.......well ofcourse I apologize.

Apologies are likely in order. The people put in Gitmo were grabbed quickly and without investigation. Over 20% were released after a couple of years because it was obvious they were not "combatants."

We don't know about the ones remeining -- 525 of them, I believe. It's not as if anbody in Iraq had anything to do with 9/11... of course, Al Quaeda members are a different matter, entirely.

The quesiton is, is this another example of shooting the messenger? Since it was an FBI report being quoted, let's assume there was some truth in reports of suspects being chained in their own excrement. Is that okay?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by techweenie
Apologies are likely in order. The people put in Gitmo were grabbed quickly and without investigation. Over 20% were released after a couple of years because it was obvious they were not "combatants."

We don't know about the ones remeining -- 525 of them, I believe. It's not as if anbody in Iraq had anything to do with 9/11... of course, Al Quaeda members are a different matter, entirely.

The quesiton is, is this another example of shooting the messenger? Since it was an FBI report being quoted, let's assume there was some truth in reports of suspects being chained in their own excrement. Is that okay?

Not sure what 9/11 has to do with this, care to clarify?

Why did we "grab quickly" several hundred average citizens? What do you suppose our objective or motivation for such a bizaar action would be?

I don't recall anyone saying anything about the report, what did I miss? I did however hear that the FBI says the report Durbin quoted said nothing close to what he claims. Durbin is now being pressured to produce it. But, like I said even if totally true, big damn deal. I'm real sorry the guy got the cold shakes while holding back info.

[kach22i]

Let's just blame the FBI, would that make eveyone feel better?

We should be a nation of standards, it's how we judge others, it's how we shall be judged.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by kach22i
Let's just blame the FBI, would that make eveyone feel better?

What are you talking about? No one blamed the FBI, there's nothing to blame period. Is it Hash Bash time in AA already?

[techweenie]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Not sure what 9/11 has to do with this, care to clarify?

Why did we "grab quickly" several hundred average citizens? What do you suppose our objective or motivation for such a bizaar action would be?

Why don't you just make the 'rolleyes' part of your sig?

The first question is stupid beyond words.

The second question is just a matter of having some information. Citizens were offered large amounts of money to turn in Al Quaeda suspects. Lots of people got turned in just because they had greedy neighbors who didn't like them much. They got mixed in with actual combatants. All of these folks were transported to a port and shipped to Gitmo. Hundreds died on the way. One hopes every one of them was guilty. But of course, we'll never know.

Something that lots of folks don't quite ever grasp is that there is a legitimate question whether anything called "Al Quaeda" exists as any kind of formal organization. Just as "terrorist" is a term you can only apply to someone who has planned or committed terrorism. So somebody who hates U.S. culture may be an 'Al Quaeda sympathizer' but is that person a terrorist?

What it all means is that we have lots of people imprisoned because of their thoughts; not their actions. And that's why all the prison camp activities are kept as secret as possible -- for the most part, we can't prove a thing.

[M.D. Holloway]

OK - judge this: Its time we started to act like the power we are and stop acting like panty-waist pussies.

We might want to continue to send a message, "this is a great place to live - better than most any other, but you mess with us and our collective happiness and we will get ugly!"

[kach22i]

Originally posted by Neilk
Let's put his exact quote into this:

When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has occurred here [at Guantanamo Bay]--I almost hesitate to put them in the [Congressional] Record, and yet they have to be added to this debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report:

On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime--Pol Pot or others--that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.

END QUOTE

I think if we read the actual quote, he is saying that what is happening in Guantanamo is un-American.

I gotta get back to work, but I think things need to be put in context.

I'm quoting this because I think some people have not read it.

Recommended reading.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

And after 3 years of this, I'm sure we're getting great, up-to-minute, detailed information from these guys.

booyahhh!

[Mule]

Weenie said:

"The second question is just a matter of having some information. Citizens were offered large amounts of money to turn in Al Quaeda suspects. Lots of people got turned in just because they had greedy neighbors who didn't like them much. They got mixed in with actual combatants. All of these folks were transported to a port and shipped to Gitmo. Hundreds died on the way. One hopes every one of them was guilty. But of course, we'll never know.

Something that lots of folks don't quite ever grasp is that there is a legitimate question whether anything called "Al Quaeda" exists as any kind of formal organization. Just as "terrorist" is a term you can only apply to someone who has planned or committed terrorism. So somebody who hates U.S. culture may be an 'Al Quaeda sympathizer' but is that person a terrorist?

What it all means is that we have lots of people imprisoned because of their thoughts; not their actions. And that's why all the prison camp activities are kept as secret as possible -- for the most part, we can't prove a thing."

Weenie, I think you have this confused with the slave trade. So we transported 500 sucesfully & hundreds more died on the way? Put down the torch & step away from the crack pipe.

So there's no suche thing as al queda? Yeah, thats the ticket. There was no such thing as naxism either. Let me repeat. Put down the torch & step away from the crack pipe.

It seems like you know all the inside scoop on what's going on down there. Maybe we should put you in charge of gitmo. Or MAYBE ----------- you're one of them al queda sympathizers hmmmmm? Is your real name bin weenie?

[rcecale]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
And after 3 years of this, I'm sure we're getting great, up-to-minute, detailed information from these guys.

Didja think about sleeper cells before you posted this?

Randy

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by techweenie

Something that lots of folks don't quite ever grasp is that there is a legitimate question whether anything called "Al Quaeda" exists as any kind of formal organization. Just as "terrorist" is a term you can only apply to someone who has planned or committed terrorism. So somebody who hates U.S. culture may be an 'Al Quaeda sympathizer' but is that person a terrorist?

What it all means is that we have lots of people imprisoned because of their thoughts; not their actions.

I was under the impression that most of these folks held at Gitmo were Arabs rolled up when the Taliban was defeated in Afganistan?

What were they doing there, taking in the bracing climate?

I do not give a f#&k whether or not Al Queada gives out I.D. cards and has a secret hand-shake. ANYONE supporting that organization - operationally or financially should be a target.