Joe, what HAVEN'T you done???

Aaron,

Its been an interesting life. Lived in Mexico, Guatamala, Germany, Saudi and then Denmark. Part military and part civilian. Been back for about 8 years now and every once in a while think about heading back overseas. Was just offered a job in Bahrain last week but dammit do not want to leave AZ! Enjoy the desert and would rather stay in the states for a while.

See what happens but when you fly for a living you tend to get around. If you are not confined to living in the states some very interesting doors open up for you...

Lets do a Porsche meet here in Phoenix when it gets cooler!

Take care,

Joe

U've seen pics of me naked by the computer before....they even depress me....

Yep. My sidebar point was regarding statistics coming out of other countries (as 930addict had brought up) which are often very misleading.

Agreed and they all drink like fish up there. I took my Brother to meet the old family up there once. They got him drunker than he had ever been and he was an ex-Navy guy so that is bad.

You can make stats do what you want if they are worked with. Would rather work with 911's!

Joe A

there's plenty of public nudity in the US if you know where to look.

.. . ?

Ya mean like under supermans skirt?

;)

okay; that joke *is* getting worn-out. -sorry

I am part Scottish... so better watch out!!!

JoeA

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1121640581.jpg

OK, that's just wrong.

We have a lax attitude around our home about nudity. My son has seen my wife naked quite a few times by accident. He is 12 now and the incidents where he has walked in on her naked are few and far between but happen. We usually do nto close our bedroom door when we get changed, he might walk and at a moment when my wife or I are naked and its not a big deal. He will usually say excuse me and come back in a few minutes.

My wife and my families are uptight about nudity. So we decided not to make a big deal out of it. Hippies? No, we go to church quite often and consider ourselves to be somewhat religouse. We just think this country is so hung up with nudity its sad.

Like I have said before. Show a breast in a movie and see the outrage. Chop it off and its all good. Tell me this country isn't f*cked up.

Same here. I'm happy to walk around the house stark naked (if it weren't for the big curtain-less french doors that my neighbors will see me thru and call the cops) but sometimes I feel like I live among the Amish. :(

I got this far and just had to post. I agree, Island. I even agree with Denis. Even with the bathroom door open you'd have to go look at me on purpose if you wanted to see me nekid. So no, I'm not one of those 'look at me' fellas. Nudity is not a point to prove. Its' not an exhibition thing, at least for me and most folks I "hang" with. It's just kind of a non-issue. While I'm not okay with exhibitionism, I'm also not so shy that I cannot allow myself to be seen briefly sans coverings. That's the tone, Island. For me and many others. It's just kind of a lack of hangup about it, more than some "look at me" thing.

Which bring me to "context." At the Fair sauna there are some young-uns who have some very, ahem, healthy looking bodies. I suppose that if someone sat and gazed at these young ladies and fanacized, then a boner might happen. But that's not what I do, and it must not be what the other guys are doing because I've seen thousands of weenies in the sauna but I haven't seen a boner yet. And as I say, hippie chicks are commonly in fairly healthy condition.

But in the wrong context, nudity can be dangerous. And yes, I'd agree that it's good to teach kids modesty and restraint. All true. Now I'll continue reading.

I'm not so sure. I suspect there is a connection between prudish moraes and stuff like teen pregnancy. I'm not sure rape is connected, since rape is more a crime of violence than a crime of sex, I am told. But yeah, lots of other sexual misbehavior is related to prudish approaches to the body, I suspect.

"Hippie" is a term I use to connote a state of mind. You'd never guess to look at me, but I consider myself liberal, and "hippie" I suppose also. But I'm a practicing Catholic. "Hippie" is not a religious faith, though I admit many of them are pagans. Agnostic, at least.

And as I say, nudity is not a showcase thing. Not an exhibition thing. But if your attitude about it is open, including the way we present it to kids and discuss it with kids, then a whole host of weird, inappropriate attitudes toward nudity and sex go away. It's like so many things in psychology. If you know about them, and consciously address them, they can't hurt you any more.

And again, while you guys can see my attitude toward nudity is fairly open and validating, if you will....my attitude toward actual indecency, and actual obscenity is rather harsh. It is clear as a bell to me that violence as an entertainment tactic, or a marketing tactic, is WAY out of control. The family nudity that kids sometimes see, if it's open and honest, is good for them. The violence they see daily is damaging them. No question about that.

And I want to clarify my views, I do not think that it is healthy to be hung up about nudity either. There is definitely a balance to aim for, as in most things. When I was a child and I walked in on my mother getting dressed or stepping out of the shower, she did not make a big scene and shame me. She simply reached for a towel and covered herself, continuing whatever conversation as if nothing happened. This taught me that modesty was a value, but not to be psycho about it. :)

Personally, I love the feeling of walking around naked or with as little clothing as possible, but if I was naked in public I would not enjoy it so much in the privacy of my home. Does that make sense? I think that clothing provides a major *protective* quality for humans beyond just covering up in the sexual way. :cool:

Well, you have it exactly backwards, historically speaking. We would seriously have to start another thread, but do you think that the (close to 100%) teen pregnancy rate in certain countries is related to their prudishness?? :confused:

Or that the (close to zero%) rate in Japan is because they walk around nude and are more open about their sexuality? I enjoy your posts in general, but I sometimes have to wonder if you are thinking about what you are writing as you type it. As for the PC slogan that rape has nothing to do w/ sex, give me a freaking break. How can you possibly explain all of the millions of times that someone has beaten the schit out of a woman (or man) and forgotten to rape them? Nothing in life is that simple. (Or maybe that complicated).

Huh? Not sure what your last remark was meant to convey, but I have been told many times that public rapists are generally not simply guys who cannot get a date so they grab ladies and enjoy some luvin' in the bushes. I am told these men have aggression issues, and dominance issues and hatred of somebody (sometimes hatred for women) and a pile of other confusions and sicknesses, and the act of rape is essentially a dominance/violence thing, where intercourse is just a part of the violence. A "spiking the ball" behavior, if you will. They say rapists often have problems getting an erection, even with the violence, and that the violence is what they find arousing. I'm not making this up. I've worked with a number of people who work with rape victims and perps, and this is what they have said to me.

Your point about other cultures is well taken. Clearly, prudish attitudes towards the human body is not completely determinative of things like teen pregnancy. Other factors also impact that. Education. Poverty/Affluence. I'd guess those are more powerful variables than prudishness. And I still think our twisted, taboo, snickering attitude toward nudity is dysfunctional, and does impact teens' behaviors. My college roommate's dad used to pretend to lock his books in a glass gun cabinet-type bookshelf. They were for adults, he said. But the lock was never actually latched. The kids were insatiably curious about these "books." Brett's dad was brilliant.

I grew up in a similar context to what several of you are describing with your own children. My parents both slept naked, and there was nothing strange or embarassing about seeing them on their way to the shower in the morning or whatever. When I was young and we were all trying to get out the door at the same time for church, my mom and sister took one bathroom and the guys (me, my borther who is 9 years older, and my dad) took the other, "locker room" atmosphere, my dad tossing me a towel as I hopped out of the shower, etc. Also not uncommon for my dad to pee without closing the door, and in fact until I was around 7, we would often have "sword fights" where he and I would stand on opposite sides of the toilet and "duel" with our pee as we peed into the toilet. Sounds odd now, but was a lot of fun when I was growing up.
FWIW, neither of my parents would be labeled "hippy" or "liberal." Both have PhDs (mom in English, dad in Physics), both born and raised in the hard coal country of PA, and both attend church (Lutheran) every Sunday. My dad is a republican who graduated from West Point in 1962. The point is I'm now 25, I have a steady, healthy 3 year relationship with my girlfriend, my brother has been happily married for 12 years, and overall if I could change how I was raised in regards to nudity/the human body, I wouldn't. I think my siblings and I came out just fine.