Cold war part Duex

mikester · 07-20-2005, 07:43 AM

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-chinamil20jul20,0,585524.story?coll=la-home-headlines

WASHINGTON — China has long-term ambitions to extend its power across the Asian continent and its leaders in the future "may be tempted to resort to force or coercion more quickly to press diplomatic advantage, advance security interests or resolve disputes," the Pentagon told Congress on Tuesday.

In a report that could stoke growing anti-Beijing sentiment in Congress, the Pentagon declared that China was looking beyond its long-standing confrontation with Taiwan and that its rapid arms buildup was increasingly aimed at expanding its military power in the region. The Pentagon assessment of China's military, required annually by Congress, goes far beyond previous reports in its attempts to discern the strategy behind China's arms buildup.

It's been brought up a few times the state of our military and it's ability to actually fight a war...

...can we? Right now we're fighting something in Afghanistan and Iraq but they aren't conventional wars - for us to fight against China we'll need quality and as much quantity as we can muster. Quite simply regardless of their "quality" their "quantity" has a quality all its own.

gaijindabe · 07-20-2005, 08:14 AM

The last ones they tangled with was their southern neighbor - Vietnam. I dont think they are going to try that one again..

1967 R50/2 · 09:12 AM

Seriously, except on a small scale, like the gulf war or the initial stages of the Iraq war, I think that "conventional" warfare as fought in WW2 is over. It is just too expensive. Even the most advanced economies (ie US) have a limited tolerance for the kind of expenses it would take and a limited capacity for producing the kind of weapons it would need.

Back in the 80's a potential war between the Warsaw Pact and Nato was viewed as a "come as you are" war, meaning each side would be fighting with whatever supplies of arms and men it had on hand at the start. It might last only a few weeks or months before one side or both either caved...or pressed the nuclear button.

China may make threats about such a thing, but their army is stuck in 1951 (mostly infantry) and their economy is still fragile and many, many, many leagues behind the US. Their capacity for fighting such a war is very limited.

If they are smart they will follow the Japanese example: Military hegemony doesn't work and doesn't last...but being an economic superstar is just awesome!

mikester · 07-20-2005, 10:46 AM

The end of WW2 left Japan with limited abilities in the world to start a new military; they had no choice but the economic route.

It's sad that we continue to underestimate our rivals in the world. The chinese are not our enemies at this time but a cold war could very easily start again.

We're competing for the same resources and export dollars; War is not a rational response it is a last resort so thinking about the possibility of WAR in a rational way is simply not.

If you think a conventional war is not in the cards you are sadly mistaken. In the end the only way to take control is to occupy. The only way to fight is to repel an occupation.

gaijindabe · 07-20-2005, 11:37 AM

Competing for the same export dollars? Huh?

strother · 07-20-2005, 11:47 AM

A direct war between China and the U.S. would be ludicrous. Everyone's seen "War Games" (even the Chinese) and knows that no one would win. We'll have to be satisfied by arming and training smaller countries to fight for us. Once we get Iraq up to speed, China will have a puppet in the Middle East and we can spar.

mikester · 07-20-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strother
A direct war between China and the U.S. would be ludicrous. Everyone's seen "War Games" (even the Chinese) and knows that no one would win. We'll have to be satisfied by arming and training smaller countries to fight for us. Once we get Iraq up to speed, China will have a puppet in the Middle East and we can spar.

You could have made the same argument with the Soviet Union during the cold war - in fact many did - but the Cold war still existed. We never would have "won" we simply would have extinguished the other leaving a largely uninhabitable planet for us to deal with.

And yes; the same export $$$s - the fact is that if China were not in the picture (which would never be the case) most of things that are being exported from china could likely be products of the USA - they would either be exported by us or instead of us importing them to sell here due to the lower cost we would have more here...round about I suppose.