...kidding, right? Or you perpetuating some myth about porkypines tossing quills in anger?

As to the dog. Jeff is probably right in the big picture view.

On the other hand, this particular dog looks to be particularily determined to be prevail under any circumstances. Dogs can be almost as self-defeatingly singleminded as people can be in this regard. Maybe he's kinda the canine version of George W on his own personal vendetta to liberate the porkypines of the world from their "bondage of quills".

My wife (vet) and I once spent three hours on a Sunday afternoon pulling perhaps a thousand of quills from a pair of Labrador dogs, owned by a farmer, with pliers. They weren't as bad as the pictures above, but close...eyes, through the roof of mouth into the nasal cavity, tongue, snout, neck, ears. Definitely not lethal to the dog.

And one hunting buddy has a german shorthair that just doesn't learn, so a gerber/leatherman is mandatory when bird hunting. We've worked on him three or four times in the field over the past few years.

We did the labs with anaesthesia, but someone big has to lay on top of the shorthair.

And they don't shoot out the quills (if my memory is correct).

I'll be the first to admit ignorance concerning the difference between "bull terriers", "pit bulls", and "pit bull terriers", among all of the other variations on that theme I have heard used to describe the breed(s). It sounds like many of you know the difference. What are the differences? Which one has the nasty reputation?

Skip, I'm sure with your experience with the breed and the length of time you have owned them, you are one who would fall into the catagory of responsible owners. I think it takes a combination of a purpose-bred animal and an irresponsible owner to add up to a bad situation. One of the most viscious dogs I have ever seen was a Golden Retriever owned by irresponsible neighbors. It was not, however, aggressive or fearless. It was that cowardly affraid brand of vicious. "Pit bulls" - whatever they are - are anything but cowards, and they are aggressive. Those are the traits bred into them, aren't they?

My Brittany never learned either. Chasing pheasants with a wide ranging pointer would frequently lead to a porcupine encounter or two. But the typical outcome was a quill or two in the snout or side of the head from getting too close out of simple curiousity.

Dog was smart enough, he just couldn't resist checking out the stinky, slow moving, undulating mass that a porcupine appears to be. A couple of quills usually brought him back to reality.

Good thing is porcupines are primarily nocturnal and hole up in trees or in brush piles during the day.

Funny you say that. my wife (a vet) yesterday told me that a Golden snapped at her. ..this in an area that is about 85%+ Pitbull.

She was noting that (surpisingly) the pitbulls are known as the sweetest dogs in the area (island of Oahu) due to breeding, and the goldens are known to be spooky.

side note; Hawaii is a real PIA to bring in animals (disease based) means; external breeding influences are minimal there.

usless trivia for the day. ;)

Island, again we make the same point. Thanks, I get a lot of greif about the "kind" of dog I have. But the opinion of those meeting him is unamously impressed. The best dog I ever owned is the usual description you get from bulldog owners like myself.

poor critter.

i hope that the owners didnt sic the dog on the porcupine. is that dog going to have to go to the vet to have those removed? my dog wont learn either, but it is with skunks. not so happy about that.

I couldn't agree more that it really doesn't have to do with the breed at all.

There is no inheritantly viscious breed of dog. Sure, Pitbulls were bred to have a certain character, size, and strength. But without the proper training/neglect, they won't live up to the evil character that the news channels portray.

I have an indoor Rottweiler. Probably considered either the 1st or 2nd most 'dangerous' breed by any news channel and most people. But to have met any of my Rott's I've had, you'd definately change your perception of the breed. I lost my home owner's insurance over my indoor dog, that seems to have a fear of our small cat. Hmmm, an 80lb dog that is scared of a 5lb cat, that screams 'dangerous breed' to me.

Rott's weren't bred for fighting, they were herding dogs. They were bred to hurd cows and bulls. So in order to be able to tell a bull where to go, you have to be pretty brave, and not back down and show weakness. So you can tell that the 'toughness' of the dog has to be the same as that of a Pit. But once again, let me just say....... 5lb cat.

It has nothing to do with breeding, it has to do with the people that raise the animal. A Miniature Poodle can be turned into a 'fighting dog'.

I have to dissagree about the breeding issue. We have become very good at breeding desired traits into animals of all kinds. From race horses to hunting dogs to cats, we have bred for thousands of years to bring certain attributes to the surface depending upon the intended use of the animal. From physical appearance to temperament, all domestic animals are the result of breeding orchestrated by man. Very few of our dog, cat, horse, cattle, pig, etc. strains are naturally occuring or have very recognizable counterparts in the wild. Malmutes, huskies, and the like are one that comes to mind, but not very many others. Bravery and aggression can and have been brought out by breeding, from certain dog breeds to rodeo bulls. Yes, we can train attack poodles, but their hearts just wouldn't be in it like the breeds we have developed for that. You could train a Doberman, German Shepard, Rottweiler, or Pit Bull to hunt pheasant, I suppose, but I doubt they would ever do as well as a Shorthair. Breeding does make a difference. Treatment, training, and environment do too, I certainly do not dispute that. Unfortunately for those of you that enjoy these breeds and give them good homes and treat them well, there are too many that don't. Too many are attracted to them because of their "badass" reputation and wind up working with them to encourage these traits. They could do it with a Golden Retriever, but it just wouldn't be the same.

Exerpts from 'Fatal Dog Attacks'.

I stand by my original comment. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers as breeds aren't 'killer dogs'. The aggresion that they might show is directly related to how they were raised by their owners.

Get your facts right before posting something like this. Terry is absolutely right, there is no way in H3ll that is a pitbull, it is a bull terrier. And as skipdup pointed out it is a huge difference. Have you ever owned a Pitbull? As a long time pitbull owner, who is connected with a ton of dog men (breeders) I can tell you that you have it all wrong. If it was a poodle that looked like that would you say that it was the result of it's breeding? Actully get to know one before you start with the guessing game. And please stop perpetuating the BS media myths about pit bulls. It makes it worse for people like us who own the dogs, and get harassed by the public for owning "a viscious fighting dog, that can eat my kids". :rolleyes:

Thanks Island, one more reason why people shouldn't believe the hype. :)

I have a dog just like that - It's an English Bull Terrier - Not a pit bull - big huge honking difference.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1122083099.jpg

The owner should be shot...

Pari, did you ANY of my other posts? This was a pretty civil and informative exchange we had going on here. Please go back and read the whole thing. I'm asking a lot of questions, and they are being answered. I'm learning a lot from some of these folks with experience with the various breeds of pit bulls, terriers, and whatever. Your in-my-face approach does nothing to add to that. You come off sounding like one of the folks that defends their oft publicized attacks on little children and old people. Maybe I struck a nerve?

There's obviously a lot of emotion regarding this breed. On one hand, people think they are killers. On the other hand, people who know and love the breed see a very real threat that one day "they" may come, take their dog and kill it (I believe this is currently happening in Denver).

The thought that people believe my Hannah should be exterminated makes me mad. As odd as it may sound, she is very much part of my family and I love her. She has never shown any kind of aggression. Period.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1122086672.jpg

- Skip

I think that right there is why many threads like this bring out a bunch of bickering and argueing. I will defend to the death, my rights to have a Rottweiler in my house. Even though this thread is mostly about Pits, Rotts get attacked by the media and public just as oftenly with a blind eye.

I completely blame the media on this epidemic. The media will never sensationalize the fact that a Pomeranian has actually killed before, but make it a Pitbull or Rottweiler, and they are on it like stink on schitt.


Just as an example, look at this list. It's a list of all the breeds that have at least 1 fatality under their belts within the last 2 decades. It's in alphabetical order, so no favorites being played:

Akita; Australian Shepherd; Boxer; Bulldog; Bullmastiff; Chesapeake Bay Retriever; Chow Chow; Cocker Spaniel; Collie; Coonhound; Dachshund, Doberman; Golden Retriever; Great Dane; Hound-"type" (may include crossbreeds); Husky; Japanese Hunting Dog; Labrador Retriever; Lhasa Apso, Malamute; Mastiff; Mixed-breed (where dog was known to be a mixed-breed, does not include dogs whose breed was not known); Newfoundland; Pit bull "type" (may include crosses or misidentified individuals); Pomeranian, Rhodesian Ridgeback; Rottweiler; German Shepherd Dog; Saint Bernard; Sheepdog; Sled-"type" (may include crossbreeds); Terrier-"type" (may include crossbreeds); West Highland White Terrier; Wolf/Dog hybrid, Yorkshire Terrier.


I'm betting the only dogs that made national news though were the Rott, Pit and Wolf Hybrids.

The site below has some interesting info that gives a little more perspective on the subject:

http://ncrf2004.tripod.com/id3.html

Great looking dog, Skip. I share your feelings about dogs; mine have always ejoyed "memberof the family" status. My current little terror is Katie, a niece of my old boy Scout that passed away last summer. So how do certain breeds get the bad rap? We all know how our wonderfully objective media reports nothing but the facts and would never sensationalize anything just to sell copy... Anyway, as blown out of proportion as it gets, it ususally has at least a kernal of truth hiding somewhere below the surface. Where did it start with these breeds? Oh, and here are some shots of Katie.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1122093929.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1122094854.jpg

I do feel bad now about incorrectly labeling the poor dog that met the porcupine as a "pit bull". I feel even worse for the poor dog.

Interesting data. So, if I read that correctly, in 2002 there were 15 fatal dog attacks. There were 16 bicycle fatalities in 2002 - in just Missouri! Maybe we should demand all bicycles be confiscated & melted. :rolleyes:

Thanks Jeff. And same to you.
If it bleeds, it leads.
You know, that's a hard question for me to answer. All I have is extensive personal experience...

I believe that APBT, AmStaff, ect to the most affectionate and loving dogs out there. But, if they are trained for (or allowed to be) aggression(ive), they can be wicked scary. I don't know of a more tenacious breed. They are freakishly strong (which is even more strange considering their size). Their pain threshold is flat out bizarre. All of this can make for a nasty combination.

I'm off to autocross my new Saabaru. :D

- Skip

Hey, that could have been my dog!!

These bullterriers are usually very intelligent, brave and loving dogs. If the owner allowed that to happen to his dog, he requires mental adjustment. I just don't see a bulli getting into that situation by himself.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1122125785.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1122126219.jpg

Le Roux