wise men and ladies gather around

[Tishabet]

Let me make sure I've got this straight....this is a planned pregnancy, yes? So you decided you wanted a kid, but you hadn't decided whether you and the mother are getting together on a more permanent basis?

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

IMHO: Pre-Nup = planning for divorce

[Rot 911]

Lots of good advice here. All I have to add is from the perspective of a divorce attorney for over 8 years (now a prosecuting attorney).

First, unless the two of you really want to work at your marriage, it will probably fail. The statistics bear this out.

Second, without protecting your assets, should you divorce, she will get more money coming out than she put in, buy a large margin. You will come out poorer.

Not sure about CA, never practiced there, but in Missouri the only two ways to protect your assets are:

a. Pre-nuptual Agreement. Requires full disclosure of ALL your assets and informed consent on her part. Cost wise, you pay for what you get. Don't go cheap on the pre-nup.

b. Keep all your assets in your name only and do not allow her to make any contribution to your assets such as house payment. Keep separate bank accounts, car titles, property, etc.

[mikester]

I don't think there's any reason to rip him apart here fellas - this isn't springer.

He's asked our advice; he hasn't asked us to shoot him.

Be constructive or you're not helping.

I think that's the way it goes in these situations.

Too many folks simply can't relate.

I can relate - I and every other man who has married can relate. However, each experience is different so each instance of relation is different.

All I'm saying - is try to help rather than berate the fellow.



He's likely already decided what he'll do. The reality is he just needs to come to terms with it - whatever it is regardless of whether we think it is right or wrong.

[coldstart]

I have never been married or fathered a child, though I definitely will do both one day, so no advice or opinion here. Best of luck and congrats.

[tabs]

Also if U buy a car for her....pay cash....and make it a gift ..do not make payments from your assets...otherwise those assets become community property....

[tabs]

A Marriage Certificate does NOT make a Good Father or Husband...

A Good father is someone who takes the time to LISTEN to their Children ...if U listen to your child you can be across the world and it will be OK...because you child will know you love them and care about them that you havn't forgotten or abandon them..they know they are wanted...

Circumstances in life always don't always allow proximity....

[gassy]

Tabs, I can't agree with you more. I said I wasn't going to post anymore but after that post I have to. We have Annie and Erik 3-4 nights a week, and they can't wait to come over. They are great kids. "A" students. Moses, what part of this post are you going to quote and then critique? I'm curious because you seem to speak from experience. How long have you been married and how many kids do you have?

[Moses]

Originally posted by gassy
Moses, what part of this post are you going to quote and then critique? I'm curious because you seem to speak from experience. How long have you been married and how many kids do you have?

I understand that divorce happens. I understand that many fathers can't be with their children as often as they would like. But the ideal situation for the child is with a full-time father. There is absolutely no denying that. The institution or marriage is far secondary to having a home with two loving parents. I doubt statistics could show a difference in homes with a married couple and homes with a committed, but unmarried couple. Again, it's the being there that matters.

Back to Toby's case; He's in a committed relationship (for many years). The pregnancy was planned! His only real issues, in my opinion, are grappling with responsibility and the pain of growing up.

I have been married 23 years and have 3 kids.

[Don Ro]

Originally posted by k911sc
no thats not it, don't be stupid. she never did drink except socially. that was merly an line to make light of running a pre-nump by her. what have YOU been drinking?

Well hell... put me on the "stupid" list too.
I read your words the same as did Dr. Biggs.
Especially when you came back to clearify [sic]...
.

Originally posted by k911sc
i must clearify, she does not, or ever have a drinking problem. the meaning of that was if i was able to get a few drinks in her the pre-nump topic might be easier.

.
Oh well, 'guess I missed the "to make light of" smilie face/emoticon, or whatever it's called.
Whatever.

[pbs911]

Originally posted by tobster1911
I am not understanding your logic against getting married. You say that it is the "ultimate sacrifice" in one sentence and then say it is nothing but legal paperwork.

Marriage is the ultimate sacrifice because the legal paperwork serves as a lifetime contract, precluding you from conducting specific acts and unconditionally accepting 100% of the liability of another individual, which if one party wishes to terminate (without cause mind you) requires you to pay dearly for upwards of the rest of your life.

IF you can be a create a child, be in love, and be a good father without being married, why NOT get married.

Given the draconian effects of the termination of a marriage contract, and the ability to be a good father, partner and provider not being contingent upon a piece of paper, why would a person established in life and career WANT to get married? At least protect yourself with a pre-nupt.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by pbs911
At least protect yourself with a pre-nupt.

I agree 100%, this is the very least you can do.

Unless you are as stupid as my brother - TWICE!

[island911]

Geeze you guys . .. is money the end game of life?

Something tells me it was not "the money" so much as she took it. (classic)

well,that is a risk; but as it is now society here is set-up to completely $crew the unwed dad, if he so much as sneezes the wrong direction.

otoh:
Guys who are married with children get a lot more breaks than those whom aren't. It maybe a pity-promo .. or perhaps it's the stability factor. But who will get the offer for say a job promotion; the guy w/ wife & kid(s) or that other guy who has some g/f who had his kid, who he sees sometimes, but really didn't want to be "tied down" to any type of comitment.

Another example: When house shopping we missed out one deal, as the seller wanted the family of 5 to get a break . .and made out on another, as the seller saw a just-married couples money as better than some speculators.

Again, society gives perks to those who are wholly committed to raising our future. (as it should ... its a big job, easily screwed up by petty positioning)

[vash]

hey, some ladies make men sign pre-nups. it goes both ways. and you can add infedelity clauses. it protects both sides, and it isnt about the money.

if i was a billionnaire, i could care less, i could live on a half a billion easy. but i would hate to lose my one california home, and go back to renting.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by tabs
Also if U buy a car for her....pay cash....and make it a gift ..do not make payments from your assets...otherwise those assets become community property....

And don't acquire and accumulate unsecured debt (e.g., credit card). Even if you were to get divorced and the liability was split on that unsecured debt via divorce decree, if the ex stops paying, you're liable for that debt.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Sounds like he should not be marrying gals that he has so little confidence in that he feels the need for a prenup.

You got it all wrong, I'm the one married for 13 years who used a prenup.

My brother has had two short marriages in that same time period - refusing to get a prenup to women who obvious to everyone but him just wanted his money.

It’s not like my brother and I have money, but blood-sucking fleas aren't very choosey which dog they hop on.

A woman who loves you and wants only you, not your money will gladly talk about and sign a prenup. If she does not, then you should start to worry.

[artplumber]

Originally posted by kach22i
You got it all wrong, I'm the one married for 13 years who used a prenup.

My brother has had two short marriages in that same time period - refusing to get a prenup to women who obvious to everyone but him just wanted his money.

Sounds like bad personality evaluation skills (following only the hormones?).

I've been married 10yrs and never even thought about a pre-nup with potential income disparity of 15x greater than my wife.

[gatotom]

my 2 cents...........it is your life, do what your heart tells you.

I was 27 when my wife had our first one, I had recently finished my time in the slammer and moved to a commune, no job, no future, no nothing. My wife's parents were freaking out, my dad just finished getting his leg amputated, we married in the hospital chapel and we left everyone to start our life out west.

30 yrs later, my last child just finished HS and is off to the naval acad. and my though is this is my chance to leave finally because my kids are finally gone. No one said marriage is easy....far from it.

30 yrs I hardly knew my wife, raising kids takes alot out of you...but guess what.....I am finally getting to know my wife again. Maybe for those reasons I married her in the first place.

Fancy that, life is really good now and our bond together is stronger than ever.

Would I do it all over again, absolutely.

To marry or not to marry, go with your heart as long as you both can be honest with each other and never hide anything, there is no problem.

The grass is not greener on the other side of the fence, you still have to water it.

Oh, by the way, if I would have walked, I would give everything to my wife, she deserves it all, for putting up with me......besides money is easy to make, it is almost a no brainer.

[scottmandue]

Mikester said it best... it was what I was trying to say but I don't know WTF I am talking about not being a father.

On a more practical note what about medical insurance for the child? If you are not married will that leave the baby out in the cold as it were? It sounds like you are going to be responsible for the child, therefor paying for it's medical, which could get rather expensive if you don't have med insurance. Isn't even having a baby rather pricey (the birthing process that is)?

[Hetmann]

As someone has already said. The child's father is the one who raises her. I'm down the road a way with raising my daughter. She is fifteen. Kids are expensive and only get more so as time goes on until they are out "on their own". We're talking braces, piano lessons, school, sports, you name it. You need to reflect on what's really important to you. In life, priorities do change as circumstances change. I like my 911, I love my daughter. Some day I'll give her the car.

The most abhorant thought to me would be that someone else would be her daddy. She's my kid. Search your own feelings. You might want to set up house a little closer togther and get ready to be a full time dad. Otherwise somebody else most likely will. If your okay with that, have fun with your toys.