wise men and ladies gather around

[juanbenae]

My fellow pelican birds of a feather, I have gathered you all around to ask you to share your wisdom with me, for I am wise in some areas, but simple in others. I have witnessed many healing, kind, noble acts performed by the community that is PP OT, helping some to determine if they have battered their family, others if they should get off cigarettes, sloppy women, buy the bike of their dream, what the growth is on their prostate is about. I know most of your views of the world and it’s politic’s., yet still consider your advice worthy of consideration. I have seen product recommendation, marital advise solicited, and received, moral issues defined, cheap shots hurled, absorbed, if prescription drugs are the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or if they should have their offspring’s crank diced and sliced like a fillet. Some like to show how smart they are, others, we continue to show how stupid we can be, and the rest just kinda fit in between.

I wish my query was something as simple as a wart on my hog, if more salad would help move my bowls more consistently, if chewing my meals better might make me appreciate my healthy teeth more, or if I was to fall would this community hear me hit bottom?

For the record, I have not hit bottom, at least as far as i can tell. First off, if pops visits and reads this I am sorry you had to hear about this in this forum, but I suspect you will be no less happy for our entire family. Others losing interested about now get comfy cause the goods are coming along shortly, after all this is my thread and in do time.

So anyway, you guys are pretty familiar with me and what I am all about. I think there are many local guys that will tell you my board act is close to my actual self, and that I am an acquired taste to be taken in moderation. I am 39, single (more about this soon), have a 911, dog, a good job, and I am the most selfish person most of my friends and family know. Not like stingy selfish, but what makes me happy is my objective, and if I wanna drop $2k on my car I don’t have to check with anyone except my credit limit..

Ok to the chase. I have impregnated my girlfriend of 4+ years in the last couple months. We talked and I was taking full speed runs at the goal trying to slip one by. Some will say I should have asked for your views in this matter prior to leaving the guy embedded when it bubbled over. I really have wanted a kid for some time but was never able to find the complete package in a woman that would have me. Well this one will, and has had me and we will be having a baby in march of 06. I am ecstatic one second, and shatting myself the next. Returning to my selfishness and to introduce you to the woman that’d carry my demon seed. She’s a great lady that has left me alone enough that we’ve lasted nearly 5 years together. I have never been head over heals, crazy, I can’t spend a moment without, all I have is yours kinda thing for her.

I love her, but does this child require me to marry here? She would never say ( did I mention she was low maintenance?) that I had too, but I know she’d be better with it that way. I don’t want to treat this like a business decision, yet my gut says protect all I’ve worked so hard for. A couple friends are going through nasty divorces currently, and all of a sudden my bachelorism is genius in their eyes. I have a lot of equity in my house, very good insurance once the kids is hatched and suspect once my offspring is in my arms I’d give any of it up to make it’s life comfortable. The birthing and prenatal would not be covered until I am named of the birth certificate so that would cost my friends and family’s most selfish character a bit of change. Marrying her tomorrow covers the medical cost from that day on.

I do not object to having her closer and move in for the entire process, and raise our family while being a full blown daddy. kinda welcome the oppertunity. I don’t want to be married though. She has a checkered tax past that I am aware of, some credit issues, and has worked as a nanny since we’ve met. She is very good with kids and would be a great mom, but I don’t see a big income potential in the near future. Not that this is a deal breaker, but what if I have to pay her to raise our kid after she’s taken it from me. I would hate to taint the whole thing by resisting marriage, get her pissed and begin to push her away, and possibly begin a long fight to see my kid, while paying out my ace to have her raise it without me being involved, per her choice should it come to that.

I have considered a pre-nump but am not sure this would be any easier to forge than flat out refusing to marry her, after all she has quit drinking. I would not know where to begin to get a pre-nump drawn up, or find a positive way to open the subject. I am prepared, even eager to support her and the child and have them in my life. I am just afraid if I make it look like my self perceived fortune is the priority she might be pushed away and do what I’ve explained above in keeping me from the child.

so in review, my girl is pregnant, by design, and I expect the decisions I make in the next few months will effect two famines, a child due for this world, my and sweety’s happiness and the rest of my/our lives. Most that know me say I should treat it like a business decision and not be married, after all ive always recommended the bottom line to them in big decissions. she won’t tell anyone about this bun because she tells me the 1st questions she will have to answer is when do we get hitched, and/or why i won't or dont want to.

Some will pile on, and I am sure I deserve it, but I would welcome the opportunity to sort through the stones that will be thrown for some answers and insight.

i want this kid, but as the most selfish person I know I want it my way and the rest of you can adjust your lives to make mine confy. have i errored, and whats the fix?

tia

[gavinlit]

If you weren't going to marry before why do it now? Is it really going to change anything long term? The income/money/asset thing is irrelevant to my way of thinking if you don't have an urge to marry in the first place. Don't do it just because you're having a child. my 2c

[fintstone]

Guess I am a bit old fashioned....Do the right thing. You know what it is.

[tabs]

Daddy.......Married or not, U are gona be a Daddy.....nobody can ever take that responsibility away from U. It is a responsibility that yu will have untill everyone who ever knows your child is in the ground...

Marriage is a social convention...it does have benfits for the child..psychologicaly etc...and for the Mother...it is a responsibility for U as well as potential benfit

Too many marriages end in divorce...the business end of what you have aqquired has to be addressed to protect yourself...as tough of a proposition as that maybe

It's like boxing protect yourself at all times...one day I woke up with a great amount of responsibility...if I don't take care of business no one else will do it for me...the same applies here no one is going to take care of what you need as an indivdual except yourself....as much as parents will sacrafice for the sake of their children...you still have a life to lead a destiny to fulfill..

I guess the question U have to answer for yourself. and I would give it a little time....is do U love the Mother to be...does she brighten up your life...

I have long felt that that the only thing you can guarntee is what you bring to the table...in this case U love her....and if she says and her actions show that she loves you in return...go for it...

U mentioned a couple of things that lead me to believe there are some doubts in your mind.....Her profession doesn't pay well...that can be remedied if the desire is there on her part...you mentioned drinking, tax and credit problem in the past...which indicates from this vantage point unstabilty in this person...has this person matured and grown up and is respnsible now? The past 5 years of behavior is a good indication....

Sometimes I see that a person will come into a persons life that provides stability for that person...and that person becomes dependent upon that person for stabilty..and if that stabilizing person should go away that person will become unstable again...there are alot of long term marriages like that. btw....the stabilizing person usually dies first....from this vantage point of not knowing either you or the other person this is a question/observation I have...

My hope is that both of you are complete enough to be able to fly on your own if necessary..have met...and decide to fly together..that is the best possible world...

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by gavinlit

Don't do it just because you're having a child. my 2c

the kid will have a clearer head about his existence if he's clear about the truth. Turning your girlfriend into an immediate family dictatorship powered by guilt is not a good idea imo.

the rest means good management on your end instead of a guilt trip.

[cool_chick]

I guess you should ask yourself: Can you see life without her?

Me personally, if I have doubts about something, I don't do it. Something deep down inside is telling me something....

And this is a biggie decision.

But then I've heard of others in your situation who were married for a thousand years, and happily.

But if it were me, marriage is something not to be taken lightly...

Good luck in your decision.

[LeRoux Strydom]

Along the lines of "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.."

If you are prepared to father a child, then be prepared to be a real father to it.

IMHO.

Le Roux

[Oh Haha]

Look down the road about ten years and ask yourself what you want your child to think of you. If you don't feel she is your soulmate, then you shouldn't marry her. You NEED to be a father to your child, though.
You don't have to get married to be good parents. (I am old fashioned so I personally would feel the need to marry her.) I have never been in your position so this is just what you asked for, my opinion. Don't do anything you may regret later.

[CarreraCab]

Time to grow up, and face your responsibility. This girl seems to be compatible with you and your quirks, if you are truly happy with each other, give it a chance. The coming birth will be a lifestyle change, to be sure. Only you can answer this one yourself !.....Doug

[techweenie]

Total happiness is a fun goal, but lasting contentment comes from fulfilling the obligations you create.

And you just created a lifetime obligation. Buck the trend. Get married.

[singpilot]

Give your GF the ultimate gift.

Tell her she is the one you'd take for better or worse.

She's already made that committment to you.

Marry her. Dollars to donuts, she'll smile when you ask. You'll know you did the right thing no matter how deeply you analyze it.

Congrats by the way.

[Joeaksa]

If you have been together for 4 years and were planning on being together in the future, why the question about getting married? The child aside, if there were no major problems in the relationship (and if there were you probably would not have stayed together this long) whats holding you back?

Like Flint, I am kinda old fashioned and feel that if you are going to live with someone more than a few months and really love and respect the person, get married. Now that a child is in the mix it makes it even more important. Do you want the child to eventually (and it will happen) look at their birthday and ask why Mommy and Daddy were not married until after they were born?

Regarding the prenup. Do either of you own a lot of stuff that is worth a lot of money or family heirlooms that cannot be replaced? Then do a prenup, but if its just household items and some "stuff" then its not worth the trouble IMHO. Would have to be some real valuable items to make it worth bringing up for me.

Good luck and hope we hear from you guys in 30-40 years saying that your child is getting married and you bought them a new 911 as a present!

Joe A

[Moses]

"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things."

A child is an absolute, irrevocable commitment. Will your first act as a father be to dishonor your child?

Your personal indulgences are unimportant now. You are going to be a father. A father.

When you are an old man, you will look back on your life and you will feel proud and strong or you will feel small. The choice is yours. In the end, the true measure of a man is in the commitments he makes and keeps.

[Burnin' oil]

What a bunch of losers - posting replies on a Saturday morning . . .

Get married, stay married and take care of your wife and child. Remember that most marital problems are caused by selfishness so don't be selfish. NEXT!

[speedracer]

I don't know what it is like where you come from but in Canada, if you have a child together, live together for some time, it will not matter that there is a paper saying you are married if the relationship fails. Where I come from each party usually gets 1/2 regardless of a marriage certificate......Common Law Marriage.

[gassy]

Do not get married for your child's sake. You can still be a wonderful father. I went through a divorce with two young kids. Divorces are no fun, aside from the financial black hole they leave you in. You said you don't want to get married. Then don't. A ton of people that WANT to get married end up getting a divorce. Going into a marriage when you're not really sure is definitely spelling disaster. Being married does not make you a better father. Most may think I'm jaded because I went through a divorce--I'm not. I'm remarried and everything is fantastic. You get married because you want to, not because social norms suggest that you do. You have a major commitment to your baby. That needs to be the #1 priority. You don't have to give up your life just because you're going to be a dad. It's a balance. You can't define your life by your child's. Again, it's a balance. Congratulations. A child is an amazing thing. Don't get married if you don't want to. It's 2005. That baby isn't going to be loved any less by its parents just because they're not married.

[scottmandue]

I know nothing of such matters but what I do know.

As we get older and more set in our ways it becomes more and more difficult to find a "life partner" (ask me how I know). I am in much the same place as you, found a lady who puts up with me and doesn't give me a bunch of crap (and we have similar interests). We are not in love but our time spent together is always good and I could see spending a long time with her. I find as I grow older that this type of lady is much more attractive (and harder to find) than the "trophy girlfriend" that is pretty on the outside and ugly on the inside who have a never ending chain of boyfriends that use and are used by them then break up when one or both of them becomes a PITA.

Don't want to get all philosophical on your a$$ but,
My younger friend (in his thirties) has had two children with his wife and he says it has changed him for the better. Our society puts a high value on chasing out own selfish desires however relationships are the only thing that really matters. All your possessions and comforts can be taken away from you in a moment (fire, flood, earthquake, thief, layoffs, etc.).

The love of a child is priceless (or so I have been told)

If I were you I would marry her, but that is your call, not knowing either of you can't really say.

Have you considered pre-marital counseling? I hear marriage counselors have compatibility tests they can give you... I know nothing of such matters, just a thought if you are into that sort of thing.

Congratulations either way!

[Moses]

Originally posted by gassy
Do not get married for your child's sake. You can still be a wonderful father. I went through a divorce with two young kids. Divorces are no fun, aside from the financial black hole they leave you in. You said you don't want to get married. Then don't. A ton of people that WANT to get married end up getting a divorce. Going into a marriage when you're not really sure is definitely spelling disaster. Being married does not make you a better father. Most may think I'm jaded because I went through a divorce--I'm not. I'm remarried and everything is fantastic. You get married because you want to, not because social norms suggest that you do. You have a major commitment to your baby. That needs to be the #1 priority. You don't have to give up your life just because you're going to be a dad. It's a balance. You can't define your life by your child's. Again, it's a balance. Congratulations. A child is an amazing thing. Don't get married if you don't want to. It's 2005. That baby isn't going to be loved any less by its parents just because they're not married.

Never read a more thoroughly conflicted, disjointed, confused treatise on parenthood than this one.

"If you don't want to get married, don't", immediately followed by "The child needs to be #1 priority." Then the height of implausibility, "Being married does not make you a better father." Of course it does! But you know that.

The single greatest predictor of lifelong poverty is having a baby out of wedlock.

Children whose fathers marry their mothers are less likely to use drugs, go to jail or be homeless, while children whose parents are married are more likely to graduate college.

Being a part-time parent is not the ideal blueprint for raising secure happy kids. You need to be there every day. You have to be there for the bad dreams, the skinned knees and the first heartbreak. You need to guide them through their first tough decisions and see them through their first failures.

I understand that divorce happens and life never really works out the way we plan it, but to start your parenthood with no real commitment to your new family is robbing you and your child of a beautiful opportunity.

[bryanthompson]

The single greatest predictor of lifelong poverty is having a baby out of wedlock.

When I was 16, I heard Walter Williams filling in for Rush one day, and he said something very similiar, and it made total sense. Don't get married before 25, don't have kids before 25, and buy a house as soon as you can. That was his advice, and his reasoning behind all of it made absolute sense. So, that's the path I'm taking.

I have a girlfriend of 3 years, we won't be getting married before we're 25, and we won't be having kids before we're married. There's one honest way to be sure of that.

As for your situation, k911, I got nothing. Seems so far out of the realm of possibility for me, that I couldn't even read the whole thing. I hope it all works out for the best

[fintstone]

Sending a regular check, putting their picture on your desk, and visting now and then does not a father make. It is tough to be a child or a mother under the best of circumstances. It is also tough to be a good Dad..that is why you get the cards on Father's Day and the adoring looks from your children and wife that keep you smiling in your old age.
Don't be a selfish little boy. Be a man and step up to the responsibility and the life that you and your partner have created. It is not easy, but you have what it takes.