Is vacation a right?

[kjb]

I'm an engineer in a Silicon Valley start-up and every time I want to use PTO it's like pulling teeth. Earlier this year, I was getting close to the 240 hour cap, and I had to play a game of chicken with my manager to be able to use some of it before it stopped accruing.

I still have well over 100 hours of PTO balance, and I'd like to fly to Europe to attend a wedding of two very close friends in late September. My manager is (as always) worried about the schedule and wants me to back down and stay at work.

My (somewhat European?) opinion is that there's never a good time to take vacation, but it is something that you've accrued and should be able to use (given sufficient notice).

Several of my coworkers have adapted the policy of just taking off without any notice or questions. I find that disrespectful to your coworkers and employer, and I don't pull that card myself. Other coworkers are not as adamant as I and haven't had a real vacation in over four years.

What do you think is reasonable? Any employers out there? Anyone else in my position?

/ J

[BGCarrera32]

Part of the problem is the startup mentality. PTO is a signifcant part of your compensation package, and you have the right IMO to take it. Maybe not on a moments notice (like your coworkers do), but given the fact you have so much banked I'd polietly lay down the law so to speak with your manager. Happy workers are productive workers...

Giving notice and working it out 2-3 + weeks in advance is more than adequate in most situations, and allows time to find someone to cover for you. Unless the business is like a 2 man partnership startup or something, I don't think what you are asking is unreasonable.

If you said..."I need the week of xx off" 2-3 weeks in advance. No biggie. Where you are going is none of their business.

If you said..."I need the week of xx off" 2 days before hand, that's a tough spot for the employer.

[Dantilla]

If you are allowed vacation time as part of your employment agreement, yes, your employer must act according to thart agreement.

Don't ask to go on vacation. Simply state that you will be gone from X until Y.

I don't think paid vacation is a right, but it's a great way for business to attract good employees, and show them that they are highly valued.

[craigster59]

Alot also depends on your "busy" time or if you're in a seasonal business. In my line of work we're limited to 4/15-7/15 and the 2 weeks between Christmas and New Years. Some people don't like it but it's the nature of the biz.

[IROC]

Vacation isn't a "right", it's a benefit. And...it's not a benefit if you don't use it. :>) Now PTO (personal time off, I'm assuming) typically comes right out of overhead (at least where I work) and it is frowned upon unless absolutely necessary.

Everyone needs a vacation though and I think as long as you give sufficient notice it shouldn't be a problem. Having said that, I am sitting on over 6 weeks of vacation because I have been too busy to take any...

Mike

[Eric 951]

The best time to take a vacation is when YOU need one, not your employer(and I am an employer saying this) As long as sufficent notice is given(I prefer a month, but 2 weeks is not unreasonable), and you have unused vacation days, there shouldn't be a problem. What is the addage, something like "No man ever regretted not spending more time at the office" Have fun in Europe.

[Moses]

It's your time. You've earned it. The fact that you will give your employer the benefit of advance notice is respectful and appropriate.

[dhoward]

Originally posted by IROC
Vacation isn't a "right", it's a benefit. And...it's not a benefit if you don't use it. :>) Now PTO (personal time off, I'm assuming) typically comes right out of overhead (at least where I work) and it is frowned upon unless absolutely necessary.
.......
Mike

I think generally all accrued time as part of a benefit is now called PTO. This avoids having to classify as sick or vacation, or whatever. Easier accounting, and may have some ramifications on whether you get paid for it when you leave, etc...

[kjb]

Originally posted by IROC
Now PTO (personal time off, I'm assuming) typically comes right out of overhead (at least where I work) and it is frowned upon unless absolutely necessary.

Can you elaborate? I thought PTO was a liability to the company financially?

Where I work, it seems that HR & accounting want people to use their PTO and they are battling managers who try to stop it.

/ Johan

[IROC]

Originally posted by dhoward
I think generally all accrued time as part of a benefit is now called PTO. This avoids having to classify as sick or vacation, or whatever. Easier accounting, and may have some ramifications on whether you get paid for it when you leave, etc...

That sounds nice. Too bad my company doesn't do it that way.

Mike

[Jeff Higgins]

If it is part of the compensation package agreed to by both parties when you accepted the job offer, there should be no question that it is your right to take it when you want. Any limitations on that right should have been spelled out in the offer. If they weren't, the implication is that there are no restrictions. Advance notice is a profesional courtesy and I believe an obligation.

One of the oldest employment tricks in the book is to offer attractive benefits packages and then not let employees exercise them. Vacation is the classic. "Use it or lose it" schemes abound, with employers having some time period in which you must use vacation or it goes off the books. Then they never approve any, so you lose it. Or "comp time" in lieu of overtime. What seems to be lost on many is that if you are busy enough to be working a lot of overtime, it's not likely any comp time will be granted. It's supposed to be when things "slow down", but such companies will then usually lay people off and keep those still employed working overtime anyway.

[livi]

In Sweden the law says everyone has the right to a minimum of 4 weeks payed vacation. This rises with age up to 5-6 weeks.

Perhaps this sounds lazy to you Americans, but it certainly spells life quality to me, spending time with family and friends.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
PTO is a signifcant part of your compensation package, and you have the right IMO to take it.

Along these lines, I have a beef with the caps placed on vacation accrual. At HP, they changed the rules about accrual caps, and as a result, people had to take massive amounts of time off to get below the cap, and in the mean time, they couldn't accrue any more. They play another little game every few months where they force you take days off just to lower your balance - purely for bookkeeping reasons.

[Overpaid Slacker]

There is no right to work in the US. I'm dubious of a "right" to vacation. Unless you have a contract -- in which case you're entitled to whatever is set forth in the contract.

I'm not familiar with labor law in the Land of Fruits and Nuts -- and CA has a lot of bells and whistles most jurisdictions don't -- but my guess is that your recourse if you're not allowed to take vacation is either to "cash it in" at the end of your fiscal year, or find new employ.

Having said all that, there are a lot of folks, in a variety of jobs out there, that don't get to take all the vacation they're "promised."

JP

[1967 R50/2]

Look...if it isn't in the bill of rights, than it is not a RIGHT or a personal freedom. Let's get that straight. People way overuse the term RIGHT to describe things that are not rights.

HOWEVER, your boss should let you take the days. Otherwise he is just being a pr*ck.

[IROC]

Originally posted by kjb
Can you elaborate? I thought PTO was a liability to the company financially?

Where I work, it seems that HR & accounting want people to use their PTO and they are battling managers who try to stop it.

/ Johan

We have "vacation", "sick leave" and "personal time". Vacation and sick leave are accrued at a rate based on years of service, etc. "Personal time" is a charge that comes directly out of our overhead (profit) budgets, so we are encouraged to "make it up" by working extra hours during a pay period.

Probably a function of working government contracts and the rules associated with time charging.

Mike

[kjb]

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
[B]Look...if it isn't in the bill of rights, than it is not a RIGHT or a personal freedom. Let's get that straight. People way overuse the term RIGHT to things that are not rights.

I agree!

"Should I feel bad for asking for a week off with a seven week notice?" would have been better, but I think there's a limit on how long the subject line can be.

Thanks everyone for chiming in!

/ Johan