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-   -   Why Don't More 928's race? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/235496-why-dont-more-928s-race.html)

M.D. Holloway 08-10-2005 07:03 PM

Why Don't More 928's race?
 
Our PCA chapter is into TT's and AX's bigtime, it is mostly all 911's a few 914-6's and a stray 944 but you are hard pressed to ever see a 928 on the track. Why is that? Are they not supposed to be very well balenced and exceptionally fast? They seem to be a great bargan when offered for sale. So what is the dealy-o?

Victor 08-10-2005 07:17 PM

Heavy - VERY heavy from what I understand. Also, I think most of them where automatics - coupled with very complex "1st gen" electronic systems.

Also the trannies and power steering stuff is expensive to fix. There's a guy who runs one in the local Porsche club - be glad there aren't more out there. They hold you up in the corners, brake way early and then overtake you in the straights only to hold you up in the corners again.

techweenie 08-10-2005 07:57 PM

Mark Anderson has had some success in POC with a 928, running in the top 3-5 in plenty of races.

http://www.928intl.com/race/

Victor 08-10-2005 08:01 PM

Is that the "E-Ram" guy? That could explain the anomaly.

HardDrive 08-10-2005 08:23 PM

Their big expensive pigs to run. Nice comfortable car for a touring, but not really intended for throwing around.

Victor 08-10-2005 08:49 PM

Yes - built for late 70's to 80's executive types to rip from Stuttgart to Frankfurt in record time along the Autobahn.

Ja!

techweenie 08-10-2005 09:20 PM

I've owned four 928s and I don't agree. They can be very agile.

CJFusco 08-10-2005 10:15 PM

there is also a guy named David Lloyd who has a 928 PCA Club Racer here in CT... I just noticed he is also in Anderson's pit crew

turbocarrera 08-10-2005 10:29 PM

There's a vid on Rennlist of a race 928 just pounding a GT3Cup car on the straights and in the twisties. I would love a 928GT.

nostatic 08-10-2005 11:07 PM

there are a couple of prepped ones that show up at OTR events. Very fast, and mean sounding.

928ram 08-11-2005 04:38 AM

Quote:

Is that the "E-Ram" guy? That could explain the anomaly.
No, that's another 928 racer also named Mark. I don't believe he uses his fantabulous E-rams on his race car though..hmm.

DaveE 08-11-2005 05:04 AM

I thought they had some issues with crankshaft oiling at continuous high RPM.

Tishabet 08-11-2005 05:50 AM

As stated above, they're heavy...more of a GT car than a racecar. The 928S4 for instance had a curb weight of a little over 3500lbs being pushed around by about 315hp.

bryanthompson 08-11-2005 05:51 AM

You guys are looking too deep into this. The real reason 928s don't race more, is because all of the socks throw off the balance of the car.

304065 08-11-2005 06:03 AM

There are a few guys who race them in the northeast. Great aero, steamroller tires, and when gutted, can be fairly light. Manual boxes are hard to find.

These guys have developed a way to pin the Weissach axle so that there's no auto-camber-correction in the corners. This improves the predictability of the car dramatically.

Nothing like one of them going by at the end of the straight, you can clearly make out the V-8 rumble against the flat six whirr.

RallyJon 08-11-2005 07:10 AM

Weight is relative. Back when the 928 came out, 3285lbs was unbelieveably heavy for a performance car. These days, unfortunately, it's average. :(

My Subaru STI weighs 3263 lbs, for comparison. The M3 is in the high 3000s.

Iggy 08-11-2005 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 928ram
No, that's another 928 racer also named Mark. I don't believe he uses his fantabulous E-rams on his race car though..hmm.
That would be Mark Kibort. He uses the same S4 that set the speed record back in '87 (Holbert car)

http://www.928registry.org/1987-928S4-Mark-Kibort-Excellence-10-2004.htm

http://www.928motorsports.com/otherc...Kibort3BIG.jpg

MichiganMat 08-11-2005 12:21 PM

Kiborts car is effing awesome. He runs a 4" exhaust pipe straight off Devek headers and the sound is orgasmic. Helluva nice guy too.

TyFenn 08-11-2005 01:07 PM

I think I read in Excellence's market report that the clutch was difficult, expensive and really, not all that effective.

tobster1911 08-11-2005 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bryanthompson
You guys are looking too deep into this. The real reason 928s don't race more, is because all of the socks throw off the balance of the car.
I don't think anyone over here got that.

OTOH, Don't you think that a high perf sock might provide good variable damping in high speed cornering?

Tishabet 08-11-2005 01:40 PM

Reading the link that Iggy posted, there is a baby's sock that was critical in getting the car to the new owner's home.....coincidence, or conspiracy?

tobster1911 08-11-2005 01:44 PM

hmmm....I had not thought of the filtering properties of socks. Could be on to something here. Maybe we could outperform K&N cone filters with just a sock! Intriguing

Iggy 08-11-2005 02:07 PM

OK...what's the deal with this "sock" stuff?

tabs 08-11-2005 02:10 PM

Why 928's don't race..because they don't run....

tobster1911 08-11-2005 02:12 PM

Prepare to laugh your arse off.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/139717-creative-engineering-its-finest.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/170105-its-baaaaaaack-creative-engineering-part-ii.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/235540-creative-engineering-iii-socks-explained.html

M.D. Holloway 08-11-2005 02:33 PM

Bye bye to the Porsche of Mine - now thats some funny *****

tabs 08-11-2005 03:30 PM

All this talk of Socks and Duct tape remind me of the R Gruppe...

928ram 08-11-2005 03:47 PM

Quote:

I think I read in Excellence's market report that the clutch was difficult, expensive and really, not all that effective.
Another pearl from excellence, not the best source of reliable info on the 928. FWIW, with twice as many parts it's bound to be more expensive; but effective? You bet, they can take anything you can throw at 'em.

vash 08-11-2005 03:55 PM

last AX, a mean, scary 928 with big huge tires smoked a bunch of 911's. his rearend would click pulling into his grid spot. i guess he had a crazy locked up rearend. he stripped everything out of the car. oh he looked like a moving billboard for DEVEK, with all the stickers and banners. that car was LOUD!

tabs 08-11-2005 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 928ram
Another pearl from excellence, not the best source of reliable info on the 928. FWIW, with twice as many parts it's bound to be more expensive; but effective? You bet, they can take anything you can throw at 'em.
So long as your have Duct tape enough to service them that is....

tabs 08-11-2005 03:59 PM

have you ever heard of socks instead of brake pads...a new aftermarket inovation inspired by the DIY mechanic when working on a complex German auto which in the trade parlance is known as THE moneypit....

vash 08-11-2005 04:00 PM

this guy!
 
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123804797.jpg

928ram 08-11-2005 04:14 PM

Quote:

So long as your have Duct tape enough to service them that is....

Why the lack of love for the Shark, Tabs?

If you need I can give you the address of a couple of 928 only message boards to get banned from :D

tabs 08-11-2005 04:22 PM

One banishment at a time thank U.....

How can I love something I can't even fit into....and when U say Porsche one thinks..rear engine air cooled.....thats the idea the marque was built upon...not this new fangled idea of water cooled front engine stuff..or even water cooled rear engine....ecch makes me shudder to even consideer such a thing....

CJFusco 08-11-2005 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 928ram
Another pearl from excellence, not the best source of reliable info on the 928.
EXCELLENCE PORSCHE MARKET UPDATE: 928
by Bruce Anderson
Illustrations by Steve Anderson

Nothing much is known about the enigma that is the Porsche 928. They are big, heavy, fast, expensive GT cars that look kind of like a longer, wider, and flatter 968. Think 944, but make the engine twice as big. They showed up some time around the mid-70s, were bought by Yuppies, ignored by enthusiasts, and most sightings are in the vicinity of junk piles.

Common failures include quick draining from their marine batteries, bad gas mileage from 'minor' gas tank leaks (about 1 drip per second), electrical shorts from using the wrong types of paper clips in the fuse box, and cam failures from improperly-tensioned timing socks. Oh yeah, and we hear that the clutch was difficult, expensive and really, not all that effective.

All repairs should be done with lots of duct tape, and socks. Lots and lots of socks. Prices range from $1 to $?????. As with most Porsches, if you are looking to buy, buy the newest one you can afford and the best example in that price range. All possible purchases must have service history, including receipts from the athletic-wear section of Sears for any and all sock purchases.

M.D. Holloway 08-11-2005 08:04 PM

The more I read about these cars the more interested I become. I think with the right mods it could be a real force on the track. Would grugy undies work in place of socks?

Seriously, I know a bunch of hard core 911 folks that would really choke if they got smoked by a 928 on the track. It would actually be sorta fun!

Wolf1 08-11-2005 08:10 PM

A little more insight into the power potential.

Porsche 928

928ram 08-12-2005 04:47 AM

Like any ond Porsche, the difference between a good one and needy one lies in the service history. I use only German made paper clips and duct tape and insist on socks with the Porsche logo, at whatever the cost.
Result is that my 928 is super reliable.

Victor 08-12-2005 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
*SNIP*

Seriously, I know a bunch of hard core 911 folks that would really choke if they got smoked by a 928 on the track. It would actually be sorta fun!

Mike - the effect is much more dramatic when done with a WRX.... cheaper too and groceries are no prob.

Wrecked944 08-12-2005 10:08 AM

I almost bought a 928. But my mechanic said I should buy a 911 instead because I probably could not afford to maintain the 928!! And this from a guy who could benefit from the repair bills!

As for racing, I recall there was an article in Excellence within the past 2 years documenting an aluminum bodied 928 that raced at Daytona (?). It also discussed the efforts by AL Holbert (?) to convince Porsche to develop the 928 engine for boat racing. Maybe someone can dig that up. There was also an article in another issue about a guy who bought a 928 and stripped it down to fighting trim for relatively short money.

I'd still love to have a stripped 928. Take the sawzall to remove unnecessary bits and go like stink.

Oh yeah, Kelly-Moss Motorsports is developing a 928 motor for racing in the way Porsche did not. Apparently they plan to put it into a 944 chassis. Crazy. Here is the blurb from their website:

This power plant has been one of the top priority's at KMR for the past couple of months. The 928 engine has spent many hours in R&D to make it one of the best all aluminum V8, 4 cam, 32 valve engines ever. Along with plenty of other modifications the EFI Technology engine management, custom stainless exhaust, and individual throttle body injection make this beast roar. This 700+hp engine will definitely get some serious attention at the track.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109262173.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109262182.jpg


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