The Greatest Entitlement Program Ever

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So then ED your saying we are living beyond our means...

All those items you mentioned as being part of the MIddle Class lifestyle are inexpensive in of themselves do to the economy of scale brought to you by the mega corporations...however in my Grandmas day Radio, TV, Washing Machines, Refergrators, telephones and cars were the luxury items of the day...and that was more expensive than livin on the farm...with outdoor plumbing...

I think the Middle Class LIFESTYLE is DONE FOR in America...and in REALITY Bushy ain't the harbringer...it's been happening for DECADES...and we are just finding more desperate ways of maintaining the illusion....

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BHushy like Regan and Eisenhower is a DELAGATOR...he delagates his authority to the so called experts...

OHHHH BTW SO CAL U fell into my trap....it was Kennedy who fearing being called a Communist Lover...got the US engaged in Vietnam...with ALOT OF US MILITARY ADVISORS.....and all this was based upon the advice of his BEST and the BRIGHTEST Advisors....so ***** happens and mistakes are made even by the SHARP Presidents

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BTW...The Best and Brightest was the term given to the WIZ KIDS that Kennedy had as Advisors and Cabinet members....

[EdT82SC]

Originally posted by tabs
So then ED your saying we are living beyond our means...

All those items you mentioned as being part of the MIddle Class lifestyle are inexpensive in of themselves do to the economy of scale brought to you by the mega corporations...however in my Grandmas day Radio, TV, Washing Machines, Refergrators, telephones and cars were the luxury items of the day...and that was more expensive than livin on the farm...with outdoor plumbing...

I think the Middle Class LIFESTYLE is DONE FOR in America...and in REALITY Bushy ain't the harbringer...it's been happening for DECADES...and we are just finding more desperate ways of maintaining the illusion....

I contend that it is possible for a single income to raise a family even in expensive areas like So Cal. You have to avoid credit card debt, buy property when prices are lower (e.g. not right now), save as much as possible before having kids, not always have a new car, cell phone, latest digital camera, ipod, whatever, bring lunch to work, don't go to starbucks, do your own car and home maintainence, etc.

How many people pay to have their lawn mowed, car washed, house cleaned, kids taken care of, etc. Here in so cal it is nearly $1000/month per kid, $200+/month for house cleaning, $75/month for yard work, $20 for a car wash every couple weeks, etc, etc. We don't have any of those expenses.

Sure TVs and DVD players are cheap, but then add on cable TV and buying or renting DVDs, and it gets expensive. We spend nearly $1000 a year for cable, and nearly $900 a year on cell phones. I lived without TV from '93-99, and that saved me a lot of money.

We don't have a car payment because we drive older cars. When a pipe started leaking a couple weeks ago I went to home depot, got the parts, and fixed it myself. Our only debt is the mortgage. If we want to buy anything we save money until we can afford to buy it.

There's nothing magical about what we are doing. Instead of instant gratification it's delayed gratification. If the middle class dies it will be of it's own doing.

[M.D. Holloway]

The middle-class now is the upper-class 50 years ago and the very wealthy 100 years ago. Not talking income but rather the comfort and quality of life in these United States.

We eat better, live longer, have more media stimulation if we so choose and use various devices that were the stuff of sci-fi not long ago. If it all went bust and we had to revert back to the way it was 50 years ago, it would be painful but it could be done as a matter of fact, I would be willing to bet that some folks would even get pretty freaking rich - they would set their minds at making a real go at it and before you know it a new Rockafella is born.

[Superman]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Kennedy.....I've always kind of viewed him as a lightweight, kind of like Bush.

This is not a correct view. John Kennedy was brilliant and visionary. He's one of those guys who slept roughly 3-4 hours per night. There is no similarity whatsoever between John Kennedy and Dubya.

I think it's obvious that Dubya was a good choice for the people in power who actually run this country by controlling its poltical process and therefore its commerce and industry, as a presidential candidate. He truly believes the crap he spews, so there was no chance that he'd be found to be deliberately manipulative with his remarks. And he has been very easily and very effectively duped. I wonder if he's figured out that he's been had. I doubt it. I doubt he will ever figure that out. I think many people will never figure that out.

[A Quiet Boom]

I look at this whole thing like a car accident. It's happened and it really doesn't matter who was "at fault" or "to blame" what matters now is putting things back together in a way that will be safe for all involved.

I supported the Iraq War from day one yet I admit I haven't always been happy with what I hear, on days like that I defer to my grandfather as well as my boss. Grandfather is a WWII vet and the boss is a Korean War vet. They will both tell you that the media have no place in a war zone. Both of them still have nightmares and regrets of the things they did while at war yet both believe that the ends justified the means. If we think of WWII as an example what was our reason for going into Europe, Im mean Europe never attacked us. Why didn't we just fight the Japanese who actually attacked us? The reason then is the same reason now and like then it might take a few generations for people to fully comprehend the reason and that reason is homeland security and protecting our allies. In the 40's we could little afford to have Europe controlled by a manicial dictator and today we cannot afford to have the ME controlled by dictators either. My boss remembers when we lost more men in a single day than we've lost in the entire Iraq War, my granfather fought in the Battle of the Bulge where I believe we lost more men than the entirety of Vietnam. And just how many where lost at Gettysburg? I believe people need to stand back and look at the big picture but this generation of Americans is different, we tend to be pessimistic partly due to the coverage we are spoon fed by the media, my grandfather's generation was optimistic and he continues to be that way even today with failing health at age 90. Personally I admire that attitude and try to think like that as muchas possible. In my life I've had many struggles and everytime I've kept a positive outlook things have turned out OK. If we as a people could just realize that we are in Iraq and put the reasons asside perhaps we could think of positive ways to help the outcome rather than bicker back and forth about who is at fault which in my opinion is not constructive and therefore part of the problem. It's entirely acceptable to oppose the reasons for going to war while at the same time look for ways to help the US end it in a productive manner.

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JFK had a best selling book called "Why England Slept" about their do nothing about Hitler policies all by the time he was 22.....

JFK was SHARP enough....

Hey Supe your no fking smarter than the Monkey in the WH...U bin suckered right along with the rest of the Bread and Circus crowd...yerr fat dumb and happy....

U don't get it...ANY Prez is a seat warmer...easily replaced...and the real power lies with the Corps that contribute MONEY to BOTH POLITICAL Partys....Money has corrupted our system...and now there is so much cross investment from this country to that country and back again....we have a Global Economy and the only thing that gets represented is that the system of Dollars keeps on perpetuating itiself.... and anybody who upsets that applecart has to go...Sadam OBL etc.....

That was the horror of 911 the ABYSS opened up when those planes hit the towers tha system of $$$$ was shaken....a crisis of LIQUIDITY...the Buildings and People in them meant NOTHING...it was the $$$$....and credibility of the US backing those $$$$$.....Oil is only the LUBRICATION that keeps the system of $$$$ moving....

[A Quiet Boom]

Superman,

With all due respect, JFK's legacy was cemented with his assasination and the history books where "amended" to preserve that legacy. He was a good president but not as great as many would have you believe. In the spirit of fairness I don't think Reagan lived up the the hype either. Nixon, ridiculed for his role in Watergate was never given credit for his accomplisments with China for example. I do my best to view newscasts with a critical eye and try to weed out the leftist or rightist slant.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

anyone catch the hearings today?

[frogger]

I missed it.

Is it another plan to provide on-going "welfare" for the Iraqi government that doesn't work?

[tabs]

What do ya expect from a bunch of goat herders....anyway Shaun...

[pwd72s]

There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab, the Professor noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt.

The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist regime.

In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked:

"Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"

The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said that it was no joke.

"You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming.

When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side.

The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again.

You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn . They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity."

The young man t hen told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening in America . The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tax cuts, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. While we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

One should always remember two truths:

1) There is no such thing as a free lunch.

2) You can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself.

If you see that all of this wonderful government 'help' is a problem confronting the future of democracy in America , you might want to send this on to your friends.


But God help us all when the gate slams shut!

[frogger]

Anyone still wonder how the Iraqi government is doing on those political milestones that were the companion to the troop surge, or was that never really an important part of the President's plan? McCain is right, we'll be there a hundred years.

[Rearden]

Originally Posted by frogger

Anyone still wonder how the Iraqi government is doing on those political milestones that were the companion to the troop surge, or was that never really an important part of the President's plan? McCain is right, we'll be there a hundred years.

The key four (of seven) legislative benchmarks have been met. Nearly all of the security benchmarks have been met. Overall, about 12 of the total 18 have been met. Certainly a better record of success than the legislative promises that Pelosi set forth for the 110th Congress.

[RWebb]

I don't think it can measure up to the railroad entitlements of the mid-1800s.

Otherwise, yes, it is completely corrupt -- but what did you expect from Cheney et al.?

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

In the old old days, we would have just popped off Saddem and let the hand ride.

Do ya' think we should bring back the Phoenix Program?

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by A Quiet Boom

... It's entirely acceptable to oppose the reasons for going to war while at the same time look for ways to help the US end it in a productive manner.

I will buy you a beer if we ever meet. You get it. One of 10%; tops.

Edit: to be specific I oppose the reasons for going to war in IZ, but I do not oppose going; needed to be done....just could have been done better.