Well of course this is a natural disaster. Are you daft? But how people respond to such a disaster invariably contains a political element. Like it or not. Unless you are a giggling virgin.

Here we have two representatives of the religious right, the keepers of the the flame, who we know from the sheer numbers of their posts have little else to do apart from vent their often silly right wing invective in this forum - both moaning about how difficult it is to get their heads around the extent of the tragedy in NO - the human dimension of this disaster etc etc. (Scroll up for details).

I simply pointed out that this tragedy - although not man-made - does bear many resemblances to what we saw in Baghdad two years ago - and asked where this new-found compassion from our red-neck friends was then - when Iraqi's were dying and living like animals in a city the infrastructure of which the US deliberately destroyed.

No I don't expect a serious answer.

But now that it's closer to home, I ask you to think about what you are propagating and condoning elsewhere.

The war in Iraq was discussed by politicians from the start and in general, the right was more for the war than the left. A friggen hurricane just wreaked all this havoc and countless organizations have been working around the clock to help the folks down there. How this can be a political issue is a mystery to me. Do the W haters really think Bush has done nothing since the levees broke on Tuesday? Pulhleeze!!


Oh and by the way Dottore, I hope you were not referring to me with your "two representatives of the religious right" comment. Some people are so consumed by the Iraq issue, they cannot help trying to draw parallels where they do not exist. Instead of "giggling virgins", whining idiots are what come to my mind.

You want to know why the "nonpolitical" patriots get pissed off at you guys...read this damn thread. The first couple posts are the true spirit of America. A fair amount of the rest is drivel.

Lets pull together and get through this thing, and stop spinning it as "proof" that one side or the other is right. Lets pull together as a people. That's what made this nation what it was.

Um...helluva way to use your 100th post. I'm no fan of the Iraq war, and while living here in Liberalville, I've heard a fair share of left bemoaning about where the Nat'l Guard is and where they should be at this moment. This is fine on a theoretical level about where the manpower is and isn't - but its theory and conjecture. Beyond that, it's bull***** to equate a planned war to an event whose forboding was at most three days.

Dont give this guy(duct ure)any attention he is a troll,just want to stir up pots while hiding in canada

I'm quoting myself only because evidentially I was correct - what was blocked out of that great footage of Bush hugging two women who lost their homes, were the dead bodies wedged against chicken wire just down the road a bit, this according to CNN.

The White House may hate Hollywood, but it sure has Hollywood's camera techniques down.

DD- To me, it seems W is facing a lose - lose situation. If he stays away, people will say he doesn't care slaughter him for it (happened to his father). If he visits it's just a photo-op.

Do you think he should have stayed away? Or, is it the "positive" footage you're opposed to? What do you fell should have happened?

Or, did I miss your meaning completely?

- Skip

He arrived 5 days too late, Skip. That's my meaning. What Bush should have done was been Johnny-on-the-Spot and arrived Monday or at the latest, Tuesday. And to worsen matters, he was in a neighboring state for part of that time leading up to Katrina. He didn't have to travel to San Diego to get a guitar and stump for his war and his Social Security reform. He needed to be in the Gulf Coast, on the scene.

So, from my point ov view, Bush can't make up being as derelict as he was, particularly as president, with this disaster. So he can hug homeless women, pose with Mayor Nagin - who doesn't like Bush anyway, give virtiolic and waffling speeches about FEMA's readiness, say "Brownie" (Mike Brown, head of FEMA), is there "24-7" and smile his smile for the camera, etc., etc. But it won't resolve the perception of a leadership vacuum and/or just not giving a damn because this was New Orleans, not New York, and these people were poor and marginalized, and not wealthy downtown Manhattan bankers, lawyers, doctors and homeowners.

And what's even more damaging to Bush: the press, including Fox, knows this fact about Bush's interest in Katrina's victims, and has been reporting in earnest his initial non-presence and ineffectiveness in toward the disaster's aftermath. He has created for himself some very bad P.R.

DD- IIRC, it takes something like 1,000's of people to handle a presidential visit, both SS & locals who know the land... I heard that report on (again, IIRC) day 2 of the crisis. The reporters I heard were hoping he would stay away until Monday, so the locals could focus on rescue and not on presidential security. This is not my opinion, but what I heard reported - which made perfect sense to me.

I don't pretend to know the logistics of pres. visits. But, I heard this report VERY early in the process. It seemed logical to me at the time. I just can't imagine reporters making it up that early, to protect W, in case there was fall-out, based on a delayed visit, which no one knew would be delayed.

Like I said... lose - lose.

My .02
- Skip

Priorities
 

Let me preface this :
I am heartbroken over what is going on in NO but........

Why does it always have to be someone else's fault when something bad happens ??
Someone made a conscience choice to remain and try to ride it out.
I was in NO not too long go (after I checked the friggin forecast) and musta seen 50 bounced checks at various convenience stores for smokes and beer. You bet your a$$ that if I didn't have the means in which to evacuate after a level 5 has been forecast that I would have bounced a check, over drawn the account, or used the cc to get myself and family the heII out.
Also, after the NO gov woke up and ordered a MANDATORY evacuation, over 100 of the GOVERNMENT provided busses left empty. Why ????
Was it ego ??
Was it education ??
Was it color ??
Whom do you blame it on ??
Some dude on vacation in Texas??
You don't need to graduate from anything to realize when you are in danger. There is no level 6 for heaven's sake. What are/were they waiting for ???
You would think that the locals would know and understand just how fragile NO is vs. hurricanes better than the rest of us.

Granted, the storm started kinda weak in the Atlantic and gradually gained strength in the gulf, but even folk here in Ohio knew that it was gonna be a big one. This may have contributed to the slow relief effort, what were so many people doing there to begin with ???

LEN - you are the man. You can so eloquently express what I am thinking.
DOT- I think that it is good that you live in Canada and don't get a vote down here.

I realize that some will roast me for not showing the appropriate compassion at this point. Don't get me wrong, I do feel for those whom remain. It wasn't the children's fault that their parents chose to stay. And I would have hoped for a larger and quicker response from the government, whom ever is in charge.
So be it.

On a tangent:
I was very surprised to see this on CNN. They interviewed a lady whom was looting. She had 5 pairs of Air Jordan Nike shoes in here arms. The reporter asked what she was doing. She said that she was only taking what was needed to survive.
Priorities

A disaster area the size of Great Britain. The largest natural disaster here, ever. NO flooded, which (whether it should have or not) took everyone by surprise. Roving gangs of armed murderous thugs shooting at everyone/thing (including police, which had to retreat to their HQ and the rescuers, helicopters, holding hospital under siege, etc.). A need to evacuate an entire large city, with people spread throughout the city, which is mostly unaccessible by "land".

I wonder if anything could have been done to avert this tragedy.

- Skip

Well by god Skip, if Bush would have showed up in NO on Tuesday (the day the levee broke), every thing would have been fine! Instead he went back to Washington and started contacting people and discussing ways the federal govt. could help. What was he thinking? His personal presence at the Superdome would have cleared the roads, removed the flood water, disarmed the thugs, and provided instantanious transport to all the hospital patients on life support along with 50,000 plus refugees.
Geez, everyone knew the complete situation in all 3 states by Tuesday,
How could Bush not have received complete damage assesments on all parishes and counties in 3 states.

This **** is getting old real quick!

Which tragedy? The poor rioting? The criminals coming out in droves? Or the storm drowning NO?

For the first two, employ infrastructure from government resources. Education, work programs, etc. But who knows if that works anymore.

For the third tragedy, I believe Louisiana has been appealing for several state administrations for help to rebuild their levees. But obviously that wasn't done.

Fact is NO was a powderkeg ready to explode on many levels other than a Cat 5-level hurricane hitting it. Katrina just lit the fuse.

Not just the president, but all his "contacted" resources were five days late.

Nat'l Guard, FEMA, etc.

None arrived in notable numbers until he did.

Wait. Is the issue the president or his resources or both? You first post seemed clear you were talking about just the president. It looks like now your saying the president and his resources???

In any event, what about the issue of taking people away from rescue operations for a presidential visit? You repeated your complaint that he was 5 days late, but failed to comment on this issue... You still think he should have been there on Monday or Tuesday at the latest? It's OK to divert resources?

Also, you do realize that the dikes didn't break until Tuesday, right? On Monday, all the reports that I saw were showing that NO had dodged a bullet. People were planning the Labor Day parties. IIRC, people were getting daiquiris at the daiquiri hut on Bourbon St on Monday night!!

But, you wanted him there on Monday??? THE FREAKING HURRICANE HIT ON MONDAY!!!

:confused:

- Skip

Skip - you're as full of excuses as Bush. Excuses, excuses. Why don't you put yourself to use and do the disserviced a favor; go donate some clothes and food to the refugees, or open up your home to them. There's bunches of them in Houston right now. I did my part already; it wasn't hard or challenging, just like proving the ineptitude of the president, which is so unchallenging, it's downright boring.

EDIT - and San Antonio...

C'mon. Just come out and say it guys. If Gore or Kerry had been elected President, this would've never happened. Right?

This just kills me. It's politics as usual.

When Clinton was President, the republicans and Clinton haters spent eight years bashing every move he made. Nothing was ever good enough. It was as if he was the anti-Christ and was therefore responsible for everything bad that ever happened to this country. Rush led the way.

The same can be said for Bush's Presidency. Ever since the day he became President, the Democrats and the Bush-haters have spent every waking moment bashing his every move and motive. It's as if he's the anti-Christ and is therefore responsible for everything bad that ever happens to this country. Now, Franken leads the way.

I agree, however, that the Federal and local governments failed miserably in responding to this disaster. I'm frankly appalled at the ineptitude demonstrated by our government over this issue. It is inexcusable. Maybe this episode will serve as a wakeup call to those who are supposed to be in charge of emergency management.

But to blame one person? C'mon! This is simply opportunistic political propaganda. Both sides do it.

Which is why I HATE politics.

Wow. What a deflection. I have not offered excuses, but real facts and problems to your demands that the pres. be on-site on Monday. Yet, all you do in return is more criticism and accusations.

And you know what... (edited by me)... Don't you DARE question what I'm doing and/or giving. You don't have a freaking clue what I'm doing or who's in my house. You don't know how many friends and FAMILY I have in NO. You don't know what I've donated or on my way to do today! In fact, it's obvious you don't know much. Except that Bush don't like Blacks. :rolleyes:

- Skip

I think that you just proved your ineptitude to the rest of us too.
Totally uncalled for bro.

Yeah Scott, it's all stupid (hope that won't tick off nostatic). My problem is I need more aversion therapy. Every time I get fed up with the blame/everything is due to GWB or X, and try to ignore these political threads, I see something which is so ludicrous that I feel I have to write something. Me stupid. Will break my hands - uhh can't do that, they're how I make a living. Will break keyboard!