Katrina Poll results

[aways]

I'm sure that this will come as a bitter disappointment to
the hate-filled Bush-bashers out there...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

Now, let's see what Pelicans think, take the poll.

[stomachmonkey]

Hmm,

Interesting poll results in the link.

From the looks of things neither left or right is objective enough.

Looks like we should turn everything over to the independents.

They seem to be fairly balanced.

[bryanthompson]

whoooo gives a wet fart about this anyway? Honestly.

[jester911]

Yeah if you like that link try this one. Seems a few people new of the dangers years ago.

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

[Ed Bighi]

I think I am going to ruffle a few feathers here. Not that a give a fuch, but oh well. A think another big part of the problem is every american's love of structure. From the bottom to the top of the command chain, along with the end recipient who loves that all-enveloping and comforting plan. It makes them feel safe. A love of following the plan. Ah, the plan. The structure. The love of complexity. Even when the problem is evolving as an organic entity, the plan stays the same and fails to evolve and keep up. We are obesessed with taking account or filling out form G7RZ-76-A-65A or whatever. Or situations like "first we must contact this person so that person contacts this person, than the third person has to come over and contact another person, and so on." It's more than bureocracy, it's the american way. At least as of late.

Want to see how it works in small scale. Cut your finger by accident. In Mexico. Yes, Mexico. Been in that situation. You go walk into a hospital or even a pharmacy, they sew you on the spot and you are out the door for a few pesos. Over here? Walk in, fill some huge form asking your grandfather's penis size, your aunt's inseam size, whey your insurance carrier was founded, then wait, wait, wait. We suffer from anal retention over here. Great when there is order. Not so great when there is chaos. What you saw in NO was a large scale of things getting too big for efficiency. Look at the Tsunami in Asia for example. Why did it get handled better. Because it was in a third world country. Not that third world countries handle things better because they don't. But there isn't red tape even for ourselves when helping over there.

Over there every country just threw everything they could at it as quickly as possible with no plan other than how quick can we load a plane. Every country went over there without a care about jurisdiction, bureocratic red tape or anything of the kind. Nobody gave a damn about stepping on anybody's toes. That was for later. Nobody waited for help to be called. They just assumed those folks were in a world of trouble and just sent everything over there. It was a situation where you just sent over a *****load of doctors water and food and then sent the surplus doctors back. Besides, as far as Thailand, nobody complained when a bunch of Marines showed up. Have a bunch of Legionnaires and Bundeswehr show up over here the next day and see what happens. Sure, the victims would be happy, but how about the doplomatic bull*****. The "structure." The ******* structure. Well fuch the structure. People died exactly because of it. Regardless of the failures by state and local. Our system failed us as well. Thank god I didn't get flooded when I went through Andrew.

Almost every time I say this to somebody else this week, they answer with some other complexity as a solution to this complexity. I give up. I think people here can't help it. It's ingrained.

[aways]

Originally posted by Ed Bighi
I think I am going to ruffle a few feathers here. Not that a give a fuch, but oh well. A think another big part of the problem is every american's love of structure. From the bottom to the top of the command chain, along with the end recipient who loves that all-enveloping and comforting plan. It makes them feel safe. A love of following the plan. Ah, the plan. The structure. The love of complexity. Even when the problem is evolving as an organic entity, the plan stays the same and fails to evolve and keep up. We are obesessed with taking account or filling out form G7RZ-76-A-65A or whatever. Or situations like "first we must contact this person so that person contacts this person, than the third person has to come over and contact another person, and so on." It's more than bureocracy, it's the american way. At least as of late.

Want to see how it works in small scale. Cut your finger by accident. In Mexico. Yes, Mexico. Been in that situation. You go walk into a hospital or even a pharmacy, they sew you on the spot and you are out the door for a few pesos. Over here? Walk in, fill some huge form asking your grandfather's penis size, your aunt's inseam size, whey your insurance carrier was founded, then wait, wait, wait. We suffer from anal retention over here. Great when there is order. Not so great when there is chaos. What you saw in NO was a large scale of things getting too big for efficiency. Look at the Tsunami in Asia for example. Why did it get handled better. Because it was in a third world country. Not that third world countries handle things better because they don't. But there isn't red tape even for ourselves when helping over there.

Over there every country just threw everything they could at it as quickly as possible with no plan other than how quick can we load a plane. Every country went over there without a care about jurisdiction, bureocratic red tape or anything of the kind. Nobody gave a damn about stepping on anybody's toes. That was for later. Nobody waited for help to be called. They just assumed those folks were in a world of trouble and just sent everything over there. It was a situation where you just sent over a *****load of doctors water and food and then sent the surplus doctors back. Besides, as far as Thailand, nobody minded a bunch of Marines showing up. Have a bunch of Legionnaires and Bundeswehr show up over here the next day and see what happens. Sure, the victims would be happy, but how about the doplomatic bull*****. The "structure." The ******* structure. Well fuch the structure. People died exactly because of it. Regardless of the failures by state and local. Our system failed us as well. Thank god I didn't get flooded when I went through Andrew.

Almost every time I say this to somebody else this week, they answer with some other complexity as a solution to this complexity. I give up. I think people here can't help it. It's ingrained.

I can't say I disagree with you. Much of the overwhelming rigidity in the system is the result of the insane amount of litigation in this country. Trial lawyers have made people afraid to ***** without a permit. The fact that trial lawyers donate more to Democrat politicians than any other group (with the possible exception of teacher's unions)is probably the best single reason I can think of to vote Republican.

[aways]

Originally posted by jester911
Yeah if you like that link try this one. Seems a few people new of the dangers years ago.

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

No argument that NO was a disaster waiting to happen. I just think the state of Louisiana should be primarily responsible for their own disaster preparedness. It's rediculous to try and pin this on Bush. What did Clinton, for example, do to shore up NO during his eight years?

[jester911]

I totally agree aways. I really don't get people who try to pin every single thing that goes wrong on the president.

It is a socialistic idea to think that the government is responsible for all our well being.

[Don 944 LA]

as a very vocal opposition to the bush administration, I cannot fathom that the accusations of current day will tarnish the real attrocities of the administration beyond enlightening people to those that have been in the dark as of current day..

Like anything that happens and an area that is not prepared ... It falls on the local govt..
Probably at some point there was a give and take for another budget matter etc ...

Bush & Co. ( believe it or not thats reality ) have done so much to undermine this country, and only a small percentage can admit while others can't so that can sleep at night while there subconcience hopes that it will all go away .. it's a bad dream ..

As I stated before, the blame lies in the local government...

It would have been better if troops weren't away, but hey that life ..

[techweenie]

Bush is by far the worst president the U.S. has had in the past 70 years.

But the greater weight of blame for the results in NO falls on the city & state governments.

It's misleading to title this thread 'Katrina poll' since so many other areas were affected besides NO.

[fintstone]

Interestingly enough, Louisiana Governor Blanco has still refused to sign over control of the National Guard to the federal government for emergency/cleanup efforts. Apparently she has not screwed up thing enough yet.

[island911]

Shouldn't the whiners go UP the chain of command all the way?


I mean really, why are none of them pissed at God ? . . God brought us the Katrina AND GW Bush.

[bryanthompson]

God Hates Bush!

I could get rich making bumperstickers for lefties... anyone want in on this little venture?

[aways]

Originally posted by techweenie


It's misleading to title this thread 'Katrina poll' since so many other areas were affected besides NO.

I've read this sentence at least five times, and it makes no more sense that it did the first time...

It may have been more precise to name it "NO disaster poll",
but I don't think it's "misleading"... Geez

[island911]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
I could get rich making bumperstickers for lefties... anyone want in on this little venture?

"No Nukes for OIL

"Pro-Choice . . .Unless the choice is a gun or SUV

"Bill Clinton was set-up by that hottie . . . woman . . .. Monica.

"My dog is more smarter than Bush

eh, I got nothing. (Hey, maybe they would buy that. )

Originally posted by techweenie
Bush is by far the worst president the U.S. has had in the past 70 years

Jimmy Carter and a very few of your liberal puke friends would agree with you.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by island911
Shouldn't the whiners go UP the chain of command all the way?


I mean really, why are none of them pissed at God ? . . God brought us the Katrina AND GW Bush.

There you go mixing church and state.....don't you know? Most do not believe in God!

[techweenie]

Originally posted by aways
I've read this sentence at least five times, and it makes no more sense that it did the first time...

It may have been more precise to name it "NO disaster poll",
but I don't think it's "misleading"... Geez

The thread is entitled "Katrina" but the poll question only asks about NO.

So we'll just have to disagree, since there's next to no reporting on Mississippi and Alabama rescue/relief efforts, I doubt that many outside the area are sufficiently well informed to comment on the total response situation.

[1967 R50/2]

PASTE STANDARD REPLY HERE.

I think it is pointless to try and figure who is responsible for the levees breaking and what not...they have been there for a long time, but nobody had done anything to improve them. There is a long list of responsibility...too long to discuss.

Therefore I will address how the disaster was handled AFTER the levees broke....particularly the looting and other chaos. There are many parties that share in the blame of this travesty.

1. The people of NO. During the North East black-out which was a disaster which encompassed many more people, rioting and looting did not break out...even though it was a choice opportunity. Likewise during 911 there was no widespread looting even though the entire financial district of NY was buried under inches of powdered concrete dust for weeks.

So why is there looting in NO? I am not enough of a sociologist to figure this one out...but clearly the people actually doing the stealing and shooting are responsible. First and foremost.

2. The Mayor...It is HIS city. It is HIS responsibility. By putting all of the burden for fixing the disaster on the government, he made the same mistake that Bilandik made during the 1979 Blizzard.

http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago...snowstorms.html

Unlike other Chicago blizzards Bilandik made no appeal to the public to help out...to help the government help them. So the people just looked for the gov't to save them. Problem was, the blizzard was WAY beyond the ability of the government to deal with without the support of the people. Very similar to what has transpired in NO.

3. The Governor. It's the largest city in her state. Once the levies broke it was clear that the "shoot to kill" order should have been issued immediately.

4. The Federal Gov't. Call it Bush...call it FEMA...call it whatever you will. I think we can all agree that faster action needed to be taken to restore order.

That is all I have to say about that.

[legion]

Originally posted by aways
I can't say I disagree with you. Much of the overwhelming rigidity in the system is the result of the insane amount of litigation in this country. Trial lawyers have made people afraid to ***** without a permit. The fact that trial lawyers donate more to Democrat politicians than any other group (with the possible exception of teacher's unions)is probably the best single reason I can think of to vote Republican.

Wow...that just about sums up why I so dislike the Democratic Party. They are controlled by trial lawyers.

The thing I despise most about trial lawyers is that they are the single group of people that get to arbitrarily impose taxes on the country that they get to keep. Think about it. They want to get rich, so they impose a tobacco tax (i.e. sue the tobacco companies). The cost of the litigation gets distributed back to all of the tobacco customers. They've done this to nearly every industry in this country. Everything is more expensive and more complicated because of them.

All the while they are robbing us, they tell us they are "fighting for individual rights" or "standing up to big [insert industry name here]. They steal our money AND have the cajones to tell us that they are doing it for our own good!

I say line them all up and shoot them.

"First, we kill all the lawyers."