Halliburton

[Ed Bighi]

I have been having serious doubts about my party since 2001. But nothing approaches Halliburton contracts. They are just way too amazing at winning bids. This ain't my dad's GOP. I guess my GOP is a whole new bag. But then again, I like money. Maybe I should just accept that these guys are profiteering, buy some stock and go with the flow.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8CDM02O0.htm?campaign_id=ap_news_up&chan=db

[Don 944 LA]

Just think, if you have a son or daughter, they can contribute their lives for the almighty dollar ...... but then again, you like money, so it's worth it if someone else is making the money ...

key note: who doesn't like money ...

[911pcars]

I wonder if their Navy contract is the same as their cost plus arrangment in Iraq?

BTW, where can I get cost plus contracts?

Sherwood

[Mulhollanddose]

Heaven forbid we stimulate the economy and in-source jobs...I guess the best strategy is to lose jobs and find a french or UN contractor to better waste our money.

[911pcars]

Years ago, before I learned of their core business, all I thought they did was produce handsome, die-formed aluminum attache, equipment and camera cases at exhorbitant prices. I even had some of their stock some time ago while the oil business was in a slump. Lucky me.

Oh well,
Sherwood

[911pcars]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Heaven forbid we stimulate the economy and in-source jobs...I guess the best strategy is to lose jobs and find a french or UN contractor to better waste our money.

As an American citizen and taxpayer, are you in favor of Halliburton's current cost plus contract arrangement in Iraq? I mean now; not when we started the war.

Sherwood

[Mulhollanddose]

I see no conclusive evidence in that article. I, unlike Democrats, will await all information before rendering a final conclusion.

Why is it that Democrats run with undemonstrated allegations as unimpeachable fact when it may damage Republicans (eg. Tom Delay), yet expect full investigations and still deny deny deny when they are proven culpable in wrong doing (eg. Sandy Bergler stealing top secret incriminating documents about the Clinton Administration)?

[911pcars]

I asked:
"As an American citizen and taxpayer, are you in favor of Halliburton's current cost plus contract arrangement in Iraq? I mean now; not when we started the war."

and you answered:
"I see no conclusive evidence in that article. I, unlike Democrats, will await all information before rendering a final conclusion."

Of course. The article was about the New Orleans/Navy project, not the contract for services in Iraq. I don't know the details of the Navy contract, but the following link suggests most govt. contracts are cost plus.

One view on Halliburton's contract in Iraq (defending Halliburton):
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york070903.asp

And to be objective, here's another view. It's different:
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/dpc_hearing062705.html

Mul,
I'm pretty sure I know which one you'll agree with and the one you'll charge with unsubstantiated lies and attacks. Am I correct?

Sherwood

[speeder]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
I see no conclusive evidence in that article. I, unlike Democrats, will await all information before rendering a final conclusion.

Translation: I am awaiting the Karl Rove version as disseminated by Ann Coultier, Michelle Malkin and Rush Limpballs before I can really respond to that.

[Superman]

Some folks really think it's about money. Republicans. Democrats think it's about people. If you think it's about money, then the Halliburton thing is not going to bother you. Hard to imagine that, though. Look at New Orleans and tell me it's about money, if you can look at the Iraq thing and tell me it's about money. Hard to imagine thinking it's about money. Seems to me it's about people.

[Seahawk]

Sherwood,

I have a lot of experience in this area and can tell you that all government contracting actions are covered under the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR). The FAR covers all the rules that govern sole source contract justification. There are very few circumstances that for all sole source contract awards. I have provided a link below should you want to look them up.
Concerning contract type (cost plus, firm-fixed price, time and materials, etc.) that is generally at the discretion of the contracting officer.
The system is not perfect, but there are layers of oversight in place that work to prevent, "sweet heart deals". As well, if other contractors do not agree, there is a protest function governed by the FAR.
Lastly, all solicitations for contracts are listed on a website that all industry has access to...industry has people that do nothing but scan the site.
Hope the a-political post helps.


http://www.arnet.gov/far/

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by 911pcars
One view on Halliburton's contract in Iraq (defending Halliburton):
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york070903.asp

And to be objective, here's another view. It's different:
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/dpc_hearing062705.html

Mul,
I'm pretty sure I know which one you'll agree with and the one you'll charge with unsubstantiated lies and attacks. Am I correct?

Sherwood, with the microscopic scrutiny Halliburton is receiving it is near impossible to successfully do anything alleged by the notoriously underhanded left. With the Republican leadership's group-think cowardice regarding political image, and the Democrats non-stop drum-beat of Halliburton infused unsubstantiated allegations and shadowy cackles of presumptive conspiracies, this Halliburton flap needs not an element of truth to be an effective bludgeon...At this point the political left strategists have so successfully programmed their minions that even the mere mention of the word "Halliburton" elicits howling at the moon and call for burning at the stake.

[emcon5]

From the Businessweek article:

The company has provided similar work after major disasters in the United States and abroad for more than 15 years, including in Florida after Hurricane Andrew.

Why is this a problem? KBR has a history of doing work for the Navy, the Navy seems to be happy with the work they have done in the past, and when the contract came up back in July, KBR put in a competitive bid and won the contract.

KBR is one of the largest construction companies in the world, why is it so difficult to believe that they got that way by winning competitive bids?

As an analogy, would it make sense every time your car needs work, do you go to every mechanic in the area and get an estimate before choosing a wrench? Or does it make sense to give preference to a shop that has done good work in the past?

Sherwood, the links you provide don't really have much to do with each other. The first explains how the contracts are/were awarded, the second lists the complaints of a couple of whistleblowers. I have no reason to doubt their claims, and with a company that big, and a project that large, there will certainly be some problems. One thing I did find interesting was this:

Mayberry said KBR would pay $13 to $15 for a box of tomatoes flown in from Philadelphia even though a local box of tomatoes cost only $5. Same goes for bacon. KBR would purchase an $80 box of bacon flown in from Philadelphia even though a local box cost only $12.

Tomatoes I can see, but bacon? I am surprised to hear that in a predominantly Muslim country, there are enough pig farms to supply enough bacon to feed the U.S. military and contractors.

It also makes me wonder what agricultural controls are in place locally to ensure the quality of the local produce. What pesticides are used in Iraq? There may be valid reasons for not buying the local stuff, we really don't know. I really doubt a website called "halliburtonwatch" is all that concerned about finding out.

You know if they bought pigs locally, some farm country politician would be screaming about how our brave boys in uniform are being fed non USDA approved meat.

Tom

[911pcars]

Mul,
Thanks for the confirmation of your position.

Halliburton/KBR watchdogs can scrutinize and investigate all they want, but H/KBR will continue to operate as they have until told otherwise. Investigative reporters and govt. auditors (GAO) can only report what they discover. It's up to the people in charge (administration, Pentagon, Congress, etc.) to do something about it - and they haven't.

Afterall, it's not their money funding the profits of H/KBR.

Sherwood

[MichiganMat]

Lot of happy campers over at HAL these days:

[RoninLB]

I don't think there is another management group anywhere that can manage large scale complicated jobs like Halliburton. If anyone knows of a competitor please let me know.

[911pcars]

Originally posted by RoninLB
I don't think there is another management group anywhere that can manage large scale complicated jobs like Halliburton. If anyone knows of a competitor please let me know.

True. Only a few companies are capable of doing this. I'm not questioning their capabilities, only their less-than-ethical business practices, especially during this war.

However, war-profiteering isn't a new concept, nor is collusion with govt. leaders.

Sherwood

[Ed Bighi]

It's amazing how much you can get away with even in this country. Because for every guy who thinks there is something there, there is another who thinks no way. No way there is anything screwy going on. When I was a kid, my grandfather mentioned to me some of what he used to do when his company built a dam, road, bridge or syscraper back in South America. Why his company was the only one that had the exact infrastructure or preparations for the exact project. How his company was the only one ready at that exact moment. Or how his bid was the one that always won out. I laugh when people think this stuff does not go on around here. Even when it's in front of their eyes.

[URY914]

Have any of you every submitted a bid for construction work? Do you realize the risks involved for both the contractor and the Owner of the project. Some work items can not be bid out. Sometimes there is only one qualified bidder. What do you do than?

Would you rather have Billy Bob and his backhoe repairing NO or someone that has done it before. Do you know who cleaned up after Hurricane Andrew and who cleaned up after the first Gulf War? .....You guessed it.

[aways]

Hailburton is the only company with the assets (hardware) and know-how to handle these kinds of dirty jobs. They do jobs that other companies wouldn't touch, and they should (and do) get paid for it. I know you anti-capitalist types hate the whole concept of making a profit, but that's what makes the "world go round".