Is being a good person enough?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Why/Why not in terms of practicing religion?

I live by (as pulled from my post on Lubemasters "measure of a man" thread: "it's all about making the life of person next you a little better. dedicating your life so that others around you have a better one is where it's at. actively thinking of things YOU CAN DO to make a difference, and then DOING THEM. You must be consistent, purposeful and unselfish in your acts."

I grew up Catholic, have read the Bible a few times, working through the NT now, but only subscribe to the Gospels and Acts as meaningful and true and completely reject organized religion as just a divine form of government designed to control people.

tobster posted that he thinks you need religion, that being a good person is not enough. Skipdup kicked me off his thread (I voted).

Thoughts?

[skipdup]

Shaun- I don't like organized religion either. Religion can have very little to do with Christianity.

- Skip

[DaveE]

I think being a good person is enough. If not, if you have to worship the 'right' religion, believe and spout the 'right' mantra, then it probably isn't the right place for me anyway.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by skipdup
Shaun- I don't like organized religion either. Religion can have very little to do with Christianity.

- Skip

I'd argue that religion has nothing to do with Christianity.

it was tobster that got me thinking about this post. hopefully he'll chime in.

[dhoward]

I'll tell you when I'm reincarnated as a perfect set of Webers. Wait, ummm....
Nevermind.

[skipdup]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
I'd argue that religion has nothing to do with Christianity.

it was tobster that got me thinking about this post. hopefully he'll chime in.

Depends on how you define religion. I wouldn't be surprised if you and I couldn't agree on more, rather than less, if we discussed "religion".

But that's totally different from being a Christian, or having a personal relationship with Jesus.

- Skip

[tobster1911]

WOW, The influx of religious threads sure jumped all of a sudden.

Here is my take. "Religion" can be a tricky heading to put Christianity under. It implies strict rules that can sometimes be more tradition than spiritually required.

I personally believe that a people are born as sinners and require salvation by some means. IF a person does not believe this then all else is moot.

For those that can see this as true, you then have to look at what means are there for salvation. This is where I/we do not think being a good person will cut it. "Religion" aside I feel that salvation is achieved only through acceptance that Jesus is that means. That is it. Period. "Religion" can get in the way of having a personal relationship (just between you and Jesus).

Just my 2c.

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
I'd argue that religion has nothing to do with Christianity.

it was tobster that got me thinking about this post. hopefully he'll chime in.

Sorry, had to do some of that "work" I keep hearing about.

[DaveE]

I think Jesus, in his time on earth, would have respect for the man who did good and was good in his heart, tried to help people, cared about those less fortunate particularly if it wasn't done just to follow some church teachings.

[skipdup]

Originally posted by DaveE
I think Jesus, in his time on earth, would have respect for the man who did good and was good in his heart, tried to help people, cared about those less fortunate particularly if it wasn't done just to follow some church teachings.

Dave- You should really read what Jesus said about this particular topic. He addresses it directly.

- Skip

[djmcmath]

Ok, let's say that being "good" is enough. How "good" gets it done? And what is it that's accomplished by being "good enough?"

[bryanthompson]

I grew up catholic, but haven't been to a catholic church in a long time. I began going to a Baptist one and loved it. For me, I think being a good person is almost enough. I follow the bible as much as I can in life. Every story in it has a point, which I think can be applied to everyday life. When I was catholic, the priest would just read to us, basically, and it wasn't interesting. When I started going to the Baptist church and made some hardcore Christian friends, I started really learning what it all meant, and how it makes sense in today's world.

So... I don't think all organized religion is bad. I prefer it to be a personal relationship between me, God, and Jesus.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by tobster1911
WOW, The influx of religious threads sure jumped all of a sudden.

Here is my take. "Religion" can be a tricky heading to put Christianity under. It implies strict rules that can sometimes be more tradition than spiritually required.

I personally believe that a people are born as sinners and require salvation by some means. IF a person does not believe this then all else is moot.

For those that can see this as true, you then have to look at what means are there for salvation. This is where I/we do not think being a good person will cut it. "Religion" aside I feel that salvation is achieved only through acceptance that Jesus is that means. That is it. Period. "Religion" can get in the way of having a personal relationship (just between you and Jesus).

Just my 2c.

OK, so salvation through Jesus. What happens to you if you don't get around to it, that is you are 2 or 8 or mentally ill?

What if you accepts Jesus but are generally an "OK" person, or even one with some serious flaws, like killing someone while drinking and driving.

[lendaddy]

I don't think I'm going to enjoy hell at all.

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
OK, so salvation through Jesus. What happens to you if you don't get around to it, that is you are 2 or 8 or mentally ill?

What if you accepts Jesus but are generally an "OK" person, or even one with some serious flaws, like killing someone while drinking and driving.

2 or 8 or mentally ill makes you innocent. The Catholic church even teaches salvation by desire, as in the nice guy that lives in China and never hears the Word of God.

Your second question frames one of the major differences between protestant and Catholic. If you're Catholic, behavior matters. For protestants, salvation trumps all.

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
Why/Why not in terms of practicing religion?

I live by (as pulled from my post on Lubemasters "measure of a man" thread: "it's all about making the life of person next you a little better. dedicating your life so that others around you have a better one is where it's at. actively thinking of things YOU CAN DO to make a difference, and then DOING THEM. You must be consistent, purposeful and unselfish in your acts."

I grew up Catholic, have read the Bible a few times, working through the NT now, but only subscribe to the Gospels and Acts as meaningful and true and completely reject organized religion as just a divine form of government designed to control people.

tobster posted that he thinks you need religion, that being a good person is not enough. Skipdup kicked me off his thread (I voted).

Thoughts?

Well, the NT makes it clear that salvation only occurs through Christ. Can you have a relationship with Christ without organized religion? Maybe. But what about sharing that faith? No organized religion is perfect, but they all have their purpose.

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by Rondinone
If you're Catholic, behavior matters. For protestants, salvation trumps all.

There is, perhaps, some middle ground here that you've missed. Well, that the extremists on both ends of Catholicism and Protestanism have missed, anyway. The Bible is very clear about the simplicity of salvation -- faith in Christ alone, not by works, so that no man can boast. It is also very clear (if you bother to study the usage of the term, rather than simply believing a modern cultural twist) on the meaning of faith: belief, as demonstrated by action. You see, whether you like it or not, your actions will reflect what you believe strongly. Those beliefs that you hold strongly enough to act upon are your faith. For example, I believe that if I don't get up in the morning and go to work, I'll get fired, so I go to my job. I have faith that my employer would fire me if I failed to do my job, as demonstrated by my actions.

So faith is all that matters, but if you merely profess belief without following through with your life, then it will be clear that you didn't believe.

(shrug) It's a middle-ground position. I don't know about innocents, because I don't know anyone who is, and I'm not even certain that the above expressed viewpoint is 100% correct. I do think it's a decent starting point based on a lot of study of Romans, Hebrews, and James.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by djmcmath
For example, I believe that if I don't get up in the morning and go to work, I'll get fired, so I go to my job. I have faith that my employer would fire me if I failed to do my job, as demonstrated by my actions.

Dan, I'm going to call you on this one. You don't have faith that your employer will fire you, you have knowledge that he will.

Faith has nothing to do with knowledge.

That people rely on faith to make decisions that effect the reality of everyone will be the greatest single undoing of our country as it slides into christian right conservatism.

[Mulhollanddose]

No, it is not good enough...One must believe in Jesus Christ.

[vash]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
No, it is not good enough...One must believe in Jesus Christ.

and be good. bad people believe in JC too. good and believing, that is the ticket.