Is being a good person enough?

[Mulhollanddose]

If one truly believes, he/she has a change of heart...the change brings good...You must work from the inside out, difficult to be sure...The Bible and Jesus are very clear that righteousness comes from love of our brothers/sisters and loving God with all our heart and soul; not from an outward display of righteousness as the Pharisees displayed.

[Rob Channell]

Seems like God, being perfect Himself, would have a pretty high standard. Let's call this justice in that we get what we deserve. Call it perfection or 100% perfect. None of us meet that so how can we possibly make it? We cannot. No one is perfect.

Sounds like a harsh God, right? He's going to can all of us for being imperfect......but wait. Maybe there is another way. He comes up with a plan to make up the difference in our imperfections if we will believe and follow. It cannot be bought or earned. It is freely offered to all who believe. This is mercy in its perfect form.

Perfect justice balanced by perfect mercy.

[nostatic]

http://la.shambhala.org/

[juanbenae]

i love "this week in god" on the daily show. it splits my sides.

[Loquat15]

Being good has to do with logic. To progress yourself, you more often have to progress others than to shun them away. Being a bad person spreads bad feelings, bad feelings create insecurities, insecurities bring people dying for no good reason.

I beleive that every action a person takes causes a ripple effect to those around them. Example, I tell a person they're a very insignificant person. They end up getting depressed and start reflecting on themselves, sometimes falling into a greater depression, then they end up not caring and they want people to die and then you get well... ugly situations. Now this example is a bit extreme, but it's quite possible.

Now as far as my "religion" I dont beleive in god, but I don't denounce god. Meaning, i dont generally talk about it because if a person beleives in god, more power to them. It's more likely they'd make the right decisions in life, if they do practice what they preach (or whats preached to them).

[Victor]

Shaun,

I have it on good authority we are all going to hell either way. Keeping our lawns down and cars shiny is about all that is within our control.

[tobster1911]

I don't know how many people (on PPOT) really have an interest to know what most Christians believe. I am chosing to answer those that I think have a genuine interest. The rest can continue to throw dumb comments that they find "deep" out for their own amusement if they want.

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
OK, so salvation through Jesus. What happens to you if you don't get around to it, that is you are 2 or 8 or mentally ill?

What if you accepts Jesus but are generally an "OK" person, or even one with some serious flaws, like killing someone while drinking and driving.

You are asking some very intellegent questions. (I would expect nothing less) But you are also trying to lay some traps. Lets see how good I am at following the mine field map.

Don't get around to it is not good enough. Don't get around to changing the oil on your cars for your entire life and you get the expected result.

The questions about age/mental health is one that people argue contiuously. All I can say is, "I don't know." I think that it is between God and that person. I can not make a judgement call based on my own desires. I do believe that EVERYONE, including those listed in your ceneario, is born in sin. The detemining factor is when they have become saved by believing in Jesus. This is something I do not have the ability to judge. The Bible does say that child like faith is unbeatable. To try to give a blanket answer yes or no would be to say that I can somehow know thier heart and that is not possible.

The last question is basically, "can you be saved even if you have problems like accidentaly (or even purposefully) killing someone". You used drinking to bate people into saying it is wrong to drink. I don't drink (not even because of religion) because I choose not to. I feel that drinking has become one of those things that people do to fit in. I have this funny desire to be more than just one of the herd. But this is all a personal decision NOT a mandate or grounds for refusing salvation.

The simple answer is YES you can still be saved if you have killed someone. How and when it happed aside, that is the entire point. Even though we are not perfect, Jesus died for us so that by his mercy we could be saved. We could NEVER be so perfect that we would be worthy of being saved in ourselfs. From killing someone in cold blood to the tinyest, most trivial seeming thing. We are not good enough. Goes against everyones ego. They hate it that someone worse than them could receive the same thing freely. Threatens their sense of self. This is why you see people lashing out against it.

Long but hopefully clear for you. If you are truely interested I can continue. But only if you really want to hear it. I hate when poeple force it unasked and try HARD not to be one of those.

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
Faith has nothing to do with knowledge.

Shaun, I must respectfully disagree. Blind faith is a peculiar beast of which I am not a fan. Blind faith excludes all knowledge, all reason, all rational thought, and all logic. If you know something to be true, then your blind faith in it no longer exists. The NT usage of the term "faith" doesn't look like that, though. Taken in context, as the term is used Biblically, it doesn't mean "blind." It means "something that you believed and took action on." Whether you had prior knowledge that it was true or not makes no difference.

We've been conditioned to think that faith is both blind and childish. You know, have faith in the easter bunny. If you believe in Santa Claus, then his sleigh will fly, that sort of nonsense. What I'm getting at is that the biblical usage of the term is different. Maybe it should be a different word, 'coz we seem to have committed noun-icide with the one we've got.

[Por_sha911]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
What if you accepts Jesus but are generally an "OK" person, or even one with some serious flaws, like killing someone while drinking and driving.

That's the whole point of Jesus' death. He didn't die to make us perfect. He died to make a way for us to be forgiven when we screw up! Every time we come to God and ask for forgiveness He says "OK cause My Son did the time for your crime". The way to get the right to this unearned favor is by making Jesus "Savior and Lord" of your life (meaning: 1)accept that you are a sinner and need forgiveness (everyone screws up) and 2) read his teachings and desire to do what he says).
Good isn't good enough because just one tiny sin means you aren't perfect and therefore don't qualify. Also, as someone else stated, define good. Are you as good as Mother Teresa was? Nobody wants to use her as the measuring line.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally posted by DaveE
I think being a good person is enough. If not, if you have to worship the 'right' religion, believe and spout the 'right' mantra, then it probably isn't the right place for me anyway.

Same.

[RoninLB]

Although Thomas Paine wrote about God, not organized religion, he passed John Adams thoughts through the Christian right preachers to spread the word. Thus the revolution was spread in church by the far right. Paine felt that organized religious men basically distorted beliefs in God.

Rome had a choice of eastern religions to deal with. Constitine sic choose the monothestic Jesus's teachings for himself and Rome. His military spread the word. Then he paid for St Peters church on his winnings. He never seems to get credit for laying the foundation and power of what Roman Catholicism is today.

Spreading the "word" today is marketing and PR. Forbes has an article in it's current mag. Businessweek did a big spread last month. The power of todays far right is organized, powerful, wealthy, political, and growing at a steady pace.

[M.D. Holloway]

The heaven you quest is the heaven you have, the hell you fear is the same you brought.

To just see the sun is not to know the sun.
To hear of the sun is not to know the sun.
Feeling the warmth is not enough.

Until you are cold and in the dark do you relize what you have lost and fear it may never come back. You must wake-up everyday to the glory of the sun and reflect in the life it brings.

And of those dark, cold days, believe that the sun will shine again. Don't have faith, have know, and again you will be in the light and the warmth.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Hey guys, sorry for dropping the ball on this thread. pretty sick today, hope to post answers/questions later today.

S

[David McLaughlin]

One word has been omitted so far. REPENTANCE. If you don't repent for your sins you will not be forgiven for them. One does not get into heaven just for believing Jesus existed, but believing that he died for your sins. On judgement day "believers" have a free pass for God will look at the Jesus' sins (or lack there of) and not your own IF you have repented. You can go your whole life an never step foot into a church and still get into heaven if you love Jesus and do as he instructs.

When my wife was attending the Catholic church, I couldn't stand going with her. I vowed never to become a church goer. People there were so eager got be done with service they would almost run to the door. Never did I see them pick up a bible. That changed when we started attending the church we go to now. People were friendly and welcomed you in. People smiled. The sermon wasn't some guy in a robe rambling on, but a man with a bible in hand (ok he likes his hand held computer thingy now) reading from the bible and explaining what it means.

While writing this, one other thing that sold me on this new place is that during one sermon, Pastor Gary told the congregation that when it came time to give to the tithe, if you were doing it out of obligation and didn't feel calles to give then don't. He didn't want the money from someone just giving whatever thay had in their pocket that day. He wanted people to give if they were called to do so. The local catholic church still send us envelopes for our money. That's what's most important to them, not the people.

Ok, I've rambled on enought.
Peace