Poll: Grade U.S. Response to Katrina

[Rodeo]

Straightforward: Grade the federal response to Katrina, from A to F. If you think its too early to say, you have that option.

I voted "D," only because I grade on a curve. "Brownie" admitting on national TV that the U.S. government was not even aware there were people in the Convention Center until THURSDAY sealed it for me.

If you want to bash the governor, mayor, etc., that's not the point of this. I KNOW they were awful, OK? Save it. I want to know what you think of the Homeland Security/FEMA response.

[Don 944 LA]

D

Not really a fail. But needs much more improvement to be " Average " or whats " Expected " ..

I feel they fell short of what was expected... therefore the D

Don

and the state/locals ... well F-

[techweenie]

Wow. An "A." Not even Dubya gave it an A. Not surprised that voter didn't post a comment. Anonymity is so safe.

D.

[bryanthompson]

B. Could've been better. Once the sensationalism calms and we start to get some more facts, I think we'll find that 1.) not even close to as many people died as originally predicted and 2.) there are two folks directly to blame for the immediate chaos: NO Mayor, and LA Governor.

The US as a whole has done awesome, especially with taking in all of the 'displaced' people and raising money.

Stupid to do a poll without having facts.

[skipdup]

More Facts.

[stomachmonkey]

Easy it was an F.

The people that were CAPABLE of leaving, (not all were so I exclude them) but did not get an F.

The Mayor of NO gets an F.

The Governer gets an F.

FEMA and Homeland Security, F.

The President's team of advisors, F.

The President, F.

Scott

[bryanthompson]

I think we could have been handing them bars of gold while putting them on chartered jets full of free hookers and prime rib two weeks before the hurricane/flood and there are some who would STILL give Bush an F.

[Tyson Schmidt]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
I think we could have been handing them bars of gold while putting them on chartered jets full of free hookers and prime rib two weeks before the hurricane/flood and there are some who would STILL give Bush an F.

Crybaby.

[RoninLB]

I can't verify below info..

This is a post from Bill Weiler, freelance journalist, over in Merritt
Island, FL, who has been researching what went on before the storm hit. These are the authors comment - I find them very interesting. Politics over Duty

I think all of Mayor Nagin's posturing is going to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light.

On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of N.O. and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.
President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the
Insurgency Act). Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military
could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.
Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area,and begin mandatory evacuation. After a personal plea from the President, Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and
authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid
before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.
Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to N.O. for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in
fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were. The suffering people of N.O. need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation
documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them. This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been
destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence

[stomachmonkey]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
I think we could have been handing them bars of gold while putting them on chartered jets full of free hookers and prime rib two weeks before the hurricane/flood and there are some who would STILL give Bush an F.

OH HELL YES, in fact it'd be an F- for wasting tax payer money in such a ridiculous manner.

Face it Brian, he could do EVERYTHING right and we'd still give him an F.

Why? It's not so much that the man's a moron, it's really because it makes you guys go batsh_t every time we dump on ole dubya and that's just way to much fun to pass up.

[stomachmonkey]

If Ron's info proves out as factual then I definately give GW an F.

It indicates that he was well aware of the potential devastation and was being very proactive which makes the slow federal reaction time even more inexcusable.

If it is true then Nagin and Blanco should be brought up on manslaughter charges, (depraved indifference) and should spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars.


Scott

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by skipdup
More Facts.

Skip, I hear you, but isn't this enough? This was Thursday, half the world knew about those starving, desperate people at the convention center. According to FEMA Director Brown, the United States Government did not:

MICHAEL BROWN, DIRECTOR, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY: Paula, I think it's so important for the American public to understand exactly how catastrophic this disaster is.

***
I will tell you this, though. Every person in that Convention Center, we just learned about that today. And so, I have directed that we have all available resources to get to that Convention Center to make certain that they have the food and water, the medical care that they need...

ZAHN: Sir, you aren't telling me...

BROWN: ... and that we take care of those bodies that are there.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Sir, you aren't just telling me you just learned that the folks at the Convention Center didn't have food and water until today, are you? You had no idea they were completely cut off?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Paula, the federal government did not even know about the Convention Center people until today.

[skipdup]

Rodeo- To rate the whole disaster response? No.

Look, I may give an F. I just want to see the details before I do.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by RoninLB
I can't verify below info..

...Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area,and begin mandatory evacuation. After a personal plea from the President, Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

(I chopped out some parts for focus on two things) First, the Image of GWB calling up near midnight & "pleading" with Blanco just doesn't ring true. This guy usually goes to bed before 9pm. AFAIK, he doesn't call people and 'plead.' Generally, GWB delegates and does not supervise. Plus, this intense level of involvement would not normally lead to keeping minor photo-ops on the schedule for the following four days.

Second, the story about a call from the president before Blanco's press conference is true, but the inference is not. The press conference was called to announce evacuation. GWB called after it was scheduled, but shortly before the press conference took place. Whatever conversation there was didn't "precipitate" evacuation orders as so many have tried to infer.

Other aspects of the story may be true, but we will likely have to wait for a commission report, since they involve discussions between Blanco and her staff -- and presumably, Nagin.

A federal disaster was declared 18 pr so hours later at the request of Blanco -- still 40+ hours before Katrina's landfall.

Again, as has been pointed out endlessly by apologists here, FEMA has a long response time and is not a 'first responder' and in fact, did not appear to mobilize until Tuesday despite the request four days before. So, even in a worst-case scenario, what would the Feds have contributed if the emergency had been declared Friday midnight instead of Saturday afternoon?

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by skipdup
More Facts.

Well look at you. You want more facts on this level, huh?

I thought you had all the facts you needed already.

[Rodeo]

Man, I just read a chilling account of what ws going on in the convention center. Human beings at their worst, total lawlessness. From today's NY times:

"The biggest problem was that there wasn't enough security," said Capt. Winn, the head of the police SWAT team. "The only way I can describe it is as a completely lawless situation."

While those entering the Superdome had been searched for weapons, there was no time to take similar precautions at the convention center, which took in a volatile mix of poor residents, well-to-do hotel guests and hospital workers and patients. Gunfire became so routine that large SWAT teams had to storm the place nearly every night.

Capt. Winn said armed groups of 15 to 25 men terrorized the others, stealing cash and jewelry. He said policemen patrolling the center told him that a number of women had been dragged off by groups of men and gang-raped - and that murders were occurring.

"We had a situation where the lambs were trapped with the lions," Mr. Compass said. "And we essentially had to become the lion tamers."

Capt. Winn said the armed groups even sealed the police out of two of the center's six halls, forcing the SWAT team to retake the territory.

But the police were at a disadvantage: they could not fire into the crowds in the dimly lit facility. So after they saw muzzle flashes, they would rush toward them, searching with flashlights for anyone with a gun.

Meanwhile, those nearby "would be running for their lives," Capt. Winn said. "Or they would lie down on the ground in the fetal position."

And when the SWAT team caught some of the culprits, there was not much it could do. The jails were also flooded, and no temporary holding cells had been set up yet. "We'd take them into another hall and hope they didn't make it back," Capt. Winn said.

One night, Capt. Winn said, the police department even came close to abandoning the convention halls - and giving up on the 15,000 there. He said a captain in charge of the regular police was preparing to evacuate the regular police officers by helicopter when 100 guardsmen rushed over to help restore order.

Before the last people were evacuated that Saturday, several bodies were dumped near a door, and two or three babies died of dehydration, emergency medics have said. State officials said yesterday that 24 people died either inside or just outside the convention center.

The state officials said they did not have any information about how many of those deaths may have been murders. Capt. Winn said that when his team made a final sweep of the building last Monday, it found three bodies, including one with multiple stab wounds.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Rodeo

Before the last people were evacuated that Saturday, several bodies were dumped near a door, and two or three babies died of dehydration, emergency medics have said. State officials said yesterday that 24 people died either inside or just outside the convention center.

The state officials said they did not have any information about how many of those deaths may have been murders. Capt. Winn said that when his team made a final sweep of the building last Monday, it found three bodies, including one with multiple stab wounds.

FEMA has blacked out news and (for a time) prevented photographing the dead). But the convention center appears to have been a hellhole that mixed newly-released jail inmates with some of the last hotel guests -- the ones who were unable to find a way out as early as Saturday.

There are some stories about luxury hotel guests leaving in large cars & SUVs and refusing to allow other, trapped guests to ride in empty seats. It was ugly all over.

It appears the biggest failing of NO authorities was under-policing and under-provisioning the convention center.

[Edit] As the coffee kicks in, I think the other key local failing was just dumping jail inmates out on the street, late in the evacuation. Think they were al "provisioned" with food & water? I suspect they were told they were 'on their own' and the results were pretty predictable.

[Wrecked944]

I think it depends on who we are "grading". If we are grading the American people, then you have to include the unbelievably brave and dedicated Coast Guard folks who saved people from rooftops, the private citizens who drove to the Gulf Coast loaded with supplies (I think Chris Mathews documented much of this), and anyone who donated money to the relief effort. You have to include the people in NO who set up a volunteer soup kitchen to feed their neighbors ( I saw them on CNN). And anybody who has ofered to "adopt" a refugee family.

All of those combined efforts may have had only a small impact, but they should not be forgotten.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally posted by JanusCole
I think it depends on who we are "grading". If we are grading the American people, then you have to include the unbelievably brave and dedicated Coast Guard folks who saved people from rooftops, the private citizens who drove to the Gulf Coast loaded with supplies (I think Chris Mathews documented much of this), and anyone who donated money to the relief effort. You have to include the people in NO who set up a volunteer soup kitchen to feed their neighbors ( I saw them on CNN). And anybody who has ofered to "adopt" a refugee family.

All of those combined efforts may have had only a small impact, but they should not be forgotten.

Amen to that! They are the true heroes.

Reminds me of how NY's acted on 9/11 and the North East blackout.

Made me proud to be a NY'r and an American.

Scott