Bird Flu Scare

[slakjaw]

65 People have died from the Bird Flu. Thats in the last 2 or 3 YEARS. (IMO that's not a pandemic)

And we are talking about Troops on American streets.???

Bird Flu does not necessarily mean H5N1, it could be 100 different strains. Then you examine the birds that have died and find out that the birds lived in horrendous environments.

Why is the fear being created? is it because of the blunder with the hurricane? or is it for another reason? Why is all the propaganda being used on H5N1? nobody is even talking about the "regular" Flu this year.

The Bush administration keeps on peddling fear and creating panic. Bush has talked to five drug company's about 600 Million doses of vaccine. ($$$)

WTF is the real agenda here?

Kyle

(I know there is another post on here about the Bird Flu but I wanted to take a diffrent stance on it.)

[1967 R50/2]

I agree. Bird Flu is a danger....but not as great a danger as the media would have us believe. If anything it is a greater economic danger to livestock than to humans.

[tcar]

Originally posted by slakjaw
The Bush administration keeps on peddling fear and creating panic. Bush has talked to five drug company's about 600 Million doses of vaccine. ($$$)

WTF is the real agenda here?

Kyle

(I know there is another post on here about the Bird Flu but I wanted to take a diffrent stance on it.)

The Bird Flu is Bush's fault.

It's probably a reaction to the situation last year (remember) when one of the 2 labs manufacturing vaccine had contaminated samples, and there was a large shortage.

That was Bush's fault, too, you'll recall.

Having 5 firms instead of 2 is a pretty good idea. Why is this "peddling fear and creating panic"?

[slakjaw]

Originally posted by tcar
The Bird Flu is Bush's fault.

Your post does not warrant a reply

[slakjaw]

You should worry more about raising your kids right, paying your taxes, and what is for dinner tonight, than you should about the Bird Flu.

[nostatic]

I disagree. If anything, the administration has ignored disaster preparedness to date. Some very credible sources have pegged the number of dead at 30 million. And that is in the US alone, not worldwide.

There are a number of things that have to fall into place for that to happen, but all are within the realm of possibility, and not "science fiction." If H5N1 or a variant manages to jump species (which it has), remain virulent, and be easily transmissible between humans, look out.

[Burnin' oil]

Too many dang people anyway . . .

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Burnin' oil
Too many dang people anyway . . .

that's what mother nature sez...

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by slakjaw
65 People have died from the Bird Flu. Thats in the last 2 or 3 YEARS. (IMO that's not a pandemic)

And we are talking about Troops on American streets.???

Bird Flu does not necessarily mean H5N1, it could be 100 different strains. Then you examine the birds that have died and find out that the birds lived in horrendous environments.

Why is the fear being created? is it because of the blunder with the hurricane? or is it for another reason? Why is all the propaganda being used on H5N1? nobody is even talking about the "regular" Flu this year.

The Bush administration keeps on peddling fear and creating panic. Bush has talked to five drug company's about 600 Million doses of vaccine. ($$$)

WTF is the real agenda here?

Kyle

(I know there is another post on here about the Bird Flu but I wanted to take a diffrent stance on it.)

Keep in mind that it's the World Health Organization that is talking most about the bird flu. That's under the UN, not the White House. They've been talking about this since 1997, so it's not at all recent.

Yes, it is indeed H5N1 that they are worried about. It can't yet go from person to person (easily, has happened only twice), but it has a 50% mortality rate in humans when it goes from bird to human. The regular flu does not have a 50% mortality rate in humans.

If you say it's not H5N1, then you have not been paying attention for the last eight years. Science magazine recently had an entire issue devoted to H5N1.

Most of the birds found dead are in the wild. Hundred of millions of domesticated birds have been culled in an attempt to stop the virus, but most were not sick.

All flu viruses start in birds. They are the natural reservoir. The 1918 flu was a bird flu that mutated so that it could jump from person to person. It is expected that H5N1 will follow that same path within a few years.

The thing that worries WHO so much is that they recently discovered that H5N1 will not require recombination with a human flu virus to become virulent, which greatly increases the chances that there will be a pandemic soon. This was published just last week.

No, there's nothing you can do about it, so there is not much point in worrying.

[on-ramp]

it's just the media scare flavor of the week. give it time, this too shall pass.

[nostatic]

and we're not talking just the young and the elderly...the high mortality rate is also seen in healthy adults.

Not sure that there's "nothing you can do." Prepare for it like any other disaster. Even if you don't get sick, consider what will happen to the economy/society if/when it hits.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Burnin' oil
Too many dang people anyway . . .

Yup! But as long as sex is more popular than death, what are you gonna do?

[slakjaw]

Originally posted by Rondinone
Keep in mind that it's the World Health Organization that is talking most about the bird flu. That's under the UN, not the White House. They've been talking about this since 1997, so it's not at all recent.

Yes, it is indeed H5N1 that they are worried about. It can't yet go from person to person (easily, has happened only twice), but it has a 50% mortality rate in humans when it goes from bird to human. The regular flu does not have a 50% mortality rate in humans.

If you say it's not H5N1, then you have not been paying attention for the last eight years. Science magazine recently had an entire issue devoted to H5N1.

Most of the birds found dead are in the wild. Hundred of millions of domesticated birds have been culled in an attempt to stop the virus, but most were not sick.

All flu viruses start in birds. They are the natural reservoir. The 1918 flu was a bird flu that mutated so that it could jump from person to person. It is expected that H5N1 will follow that same path within a few years.

The thing that worries WHO so much is that they recently discovered that H5N1 will not require recombination with a human flu virus to become virulent, which greatly increases the chances that there will be a pandemic soon. This was published just last week.

No, there's nothing you can do about it, so there is not much point in worrying.

I have never had nor will I ever get a Flu shot.

I said that the Bird Flu does not necessarily mean H5N1. That may be what they are worried about but Bird Flu could be different strains.

As far as your statment on wild birds: Its just not true, here are a hole bunch of links that disagree with that statment as well.

Ducks Unlimited Statement on Avian Flu

Most of us in the waterfowling community are by now aware of the media reports regarding the H5N1 strain of the highly pathogenic avian influenza virus (HPAI H5N1) that has spread throughout much of Southeastern Asia. Although the virus has primarily affected domestic poultry operations, it is receiving great attention within the medical community because it has caused more than 50 human deaths in Asia since the winter of 2003-2004. Domestic poultry (contact with infected birds or contaminated surfaces) have been the principle vector for the H5N1 transmission in most of those cases, with only a handful of human infections having resulted from human-to-human contact.

Although there have been recent reports that the virus has caused deaths in wild migratory birds in a few isolated locations in Asia, there is no evidence yet that wild birds have transmitted HPAI H5N1 to humans, nor that migratory birds have been responsible for dispersing the virus in Asia. However, with the possibility that wild birds could become vectors for the new HPAI H5N1 virus, and because some waterfowl and shorebird species migrate between Alaska and Asia, authorities in the wildlife conservation, hunting and medical communities are taking steps to monitor the situation closely and take action if necessary.

DU is reassuring fellow waterfowl enthusiasts that HPAI H5N1 is not a current threat in North America. Although the probability of future occurrence in North American waterfowl cannot be predicted, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and U.S. Geological Survey’s (USGS) National Wildlife Health Center are diligently monitoring migratory birds in Alaska in conjunction with state and university support. To date, thousands of waterfowl and shorebird samples from Alaska have been analyzed, and no evidence of the virus has been discovered. Thus, with respect to this year’s hunting season, federal authorities have stated that “it is unlikely that H5N1 will be carried by birds migrating from Asia to North America this fall or winter.”

In light of these facts and observations by authorities, DU suggests that the appropriate response by hunters at this time is to simply stay informed and educated. With no reports of HPAI H5N1 in North America, there is no reason to be concerned about the virus while waterfowl hunting during the 2005-2006 season.

While HPAI H5N1 is not a current threat to waterfowl hunters in North America, Ducks Unlimited encourages hunters to heed the standard precautions offered by the USGS National Wildlife Health Center for protecting themselves against other diseases for which there is always a low probability of transmission by handling harvested animals:

1.) Do not handle birds that are obviously sick or birds found dead.
2.) Keep your game birds cool, clean and dry.
3.) Do not eat, drink, or smoke while cleaning your birds.
4.) Use rubber gloves when cleaning game.
5.) Wash your hands with soap and water or alcohol wipes after dressing birds.
6.) Clean all tools and surfaces immediately afterwards; use hot soapy water, then disinfect with a 10 percent chlorine bleach solution.
7.) Cook game meat thoroughly (155-165 degrees F) to kill disease organisms and parasites.

For more information about avian influenza and wildlife diseases:

USGS - National Wildlife Health Center:
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/research/avian_influenza/avian_influenza.html
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/research/a..._influenza.html

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/

World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/en/

APHIS-USDA


U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Memorandum 8/25/2005
http://www.fws.gov/policy/m0271.html

USGS-NWHC: Field Manual of Wildlife Diseases
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/pub_metada...eld_manual.html

Ducks Unlimited Canada Article: Invisible threat: the impacts of disease on wild duck populations
http://www.ducks.ca/aboutduc/news/c...r/261/bot1.html

[Burnin' oil]

Well, no more making out with birds for me . . .

[legion]

Originally posted by Burnin' oil
Well, no more making out with birds for me . . .

Yes, stay away from the chicks, especially the cool ones.

[cool_chick]

It may be a "media scare," but I'd rather be prepared in the event this "media scare" turns out to be real.

In 1918 (or thereabouts) there was a Spanish Flu outbreak, which, if I recall correctly, millions lost their lives.

With the world growing smaller (global trading, etc.) I can't dismiss an outbreak in the U.S. as a possibility. Forethought is a good thing.

[tcar]

Probably a good idea to prepare for it rather than ignore it and say that "those levees look fine to me". Good for the UN, and the US gov.

Most of the victims of the Spanish Flu (an avian flu) were in the 20-45 years old range. The Spanish Flu had a 1-2% mortality rate (c. 2 mill died).

So far, the H5N1 has about a 50% mortality rate, and it appears that people have now gotten it from other people, not just birds.

[RickM]

Originally posted by tcar
the Spanish Flu (an avian flu)

Where is this documented?

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by slakjaw
I have never had nor will I ever get a Flu shot.

I said that the Bird Flu does not necessarily mean H5N1. That may be what they are worried about but Bird Flu could be different strains.

As far as your statment on wild birds: Its just not true, here are a hole bunch of links that disagree with that statment as well.

The media hype you complain about is only concerned with H5N1. You said 65 deaths, those were all H5N1.

The info you posted from Ducks Unlimited is old. Really, we're supposed to believe a group of hunters (in north America no less, where H5N1 does not even exist) over the World Health Organization?

Over the last year it has become apparent that there have been several die-offs in the wild of entire flocks of different types of birds. Most have been in China, which is why the info took a while to surface (they suppress bad news or news that may hurt trade). It is now clear that the virus is spreading throughout Asia along bird migratory routes. This is stated in the WHO webpage you cited above. If wild birds aren't a problem, then why is the FWS monitoring wild birds in Alaska? If it's only in domesticated poultry, why would duck hunters care?

Yes, the virus is endemic in poultry, but most of the poultry killed have been culled. One sick bird dooms the entire flock. Those tactics worked for a while but now that the virus is spreading in the wild it will quickly spread across Europe/Asia. What we are seeing in Turkey this week is just the beginning.

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by RickM
Where is this documented?

Scientists have in the last year sequenced the 1918 genome (last week it was reported that they recreated the actual virus and infected mice). It is a bird flu variant. It was all made public last week. Yes, this was done in a biocontainment facility, but people are still nervous about it.

Gene sequencing:
Nature 437, 889-893 (6 October 2005)

Reconstruction:
Science, Vol 310, Issue 5745, 77-80 , 7 October 2005

Abstract of reconstruction paper:

Characterization of the Reconstructed 1918 Spanish Influenza Pandemic Virus
Terrence M. Tumpey,1* Christopher F. Basler,2 Patricia V. Aguilar,2 Hui Zeng,1 Alicia Solórzano,2 David E. Swayne,4 Nancy J. Cox,1 Jacqueline M. Katz,1 Jeffery K. Taubenberger,3 Peter Palese,2 Adolfo García-Sastre2

The pandemic influenza virus of 1918–1919 killed an estimated 20 to 50 million people worldwide. With the recent availability of the complete 1918 influenza virus coding sequence, we used reverse genetics to generate an influenza virus bearing all eight gene segments of the pandemic virus to study the properties associated with its extraordinary virulence. In stark contrast to contemporary human influenza H1N1 viruses, the 1918 pandemic virus had the ability to replicate in the absence of trypsin, caused death in mice and embryonated chicken eggs, and displayed a high-growth phenotype in human bronchial epithelial cells. Moreover, the coordinated expression of the 1918 virus genes most certainly confers the unique high-virulence phenotype observed with this pandemic virus.