military service for our children?

[mikester]

doink!

[jyl]

Hardly anyone will or can place the same value on a child's life as that child's parents do. It's impossible.

I'm not arguing with you, I just think that's a standard that isn't going to be possible to meet.

[Joeaksa]

Should be mandatory for every child, boy or girl, in the country. You grow up a lot and learn things that everyone needs to know in boot camp.

Make it 2 years like many of the other countries where its mandatory. If the kid wants to stay in then they can, otherwise they then move back to the civilian world and hopefully college.

Joe A

[rcecale]

Originally posted by mikester
I have spoken to a few veterans and gotten similar expressions as my dad's but I will say this - not one Marine that I have spoken too about it feels this way.

Marine's rock by the way.

Well, Mike, even though we've never spoken to one another, you can count me in on this group of Marines.

There was a saying we were taught while going through Recruit Training that goes, "Nobody WANTS to have to fight, but SOMEBODY has to know how!" I think, perhaps, this may be the common sentiment amongst the Marines you HAVE spoken with.

And by the way, did you just call me a "rock"?

Randy

[Moses]

My father is the most patriotic man I know. He was 16 when he landed on Guadalcanal. He was a machine gunner and a Marine. Wounded three times, he spent nearly two years in the hospital after being rescued from the island.

My son is 15. My father has told me that if the draft is reinstated, he wants me to get my son out of the country. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Dad just frowned and told me "Things have changed." My father believes that war should be undertaken when all else fails. A last resort. A desperate act. He does not believe it should be a foriegn policy tool. Semper Fi, dad.

[widebody911]

While I think a stint of military service might do kids some good, and it probably would have benefited someone like myself (although I did a few years as a firefighter with CDF, which is sorta kinda almost paramilitary), I have concerns with implementing it in this country.

Face it: the US armed forces have been reduced to the duty of enforcers of policies which are primarily economically driven. Junior takes a bullet, Halliburton's up a quarter of a point and everyone's happy - well, except for Junior's family.

The corporate officers of Bechtel, Chevron, Halliburton, etc can't even stand up straight because of the wood they're sportin' at the thought of a draft.

Of course, the offspring of families like the Cheneys and the Bushes would end up with some deferrment or another; that's pretty much a given.

[nostatic]

how about we privatize the military?

[Moses]

Originally posted by nostatic
how about we privatize the military?

Not an entirely bad idea, but it could make war even easier. An army of mercenaries might well become the primary tool of foriegn policy. I don't trust politicians at all. I would like to dust off the Constitution and impeach any president who engages the military in an undeclared war. Do you think maybe the founding fathers had something in mind when they decided that only congress could declare war?

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by widebody911
Of course, the offspring of families like the Cheneys and the Bushes would end up with some deferrment or another; that's pretty much a given.

Wish you guys would leave politics out of this and focus on what this would be like over a 20-40 year period, and not just "its Bush's fault" mantra... Seem to remember lots of Democrats going to Canada or overseas (like slick willie) to get out of serving in Viet Nam.

With mandatory service for EVERYONE, everyone would go and serve. Thats one of the good points is that no one is exempt. No deferrment unless they could not pass the medical exam.

JoeA

[Erakad]

I am currently on active duty...I have some comments. First, if any of my 4 kids were interested in serving, I would support them. If just starting out, many military jobs offer excellent training that pay well in the private sector. Second, if planning on attending college, the GI Bill still pays a healthy amount after separating, tuition assistance while on AD is excellent! Check the benefits...100% paid medical, can't beat it (yes, there are exceptions and we can discuss off-line if you insist), 1 month vacation every year....starting off! Housing, tax free shopping, etc, etc. Finally, I think that many people still benefit from the discipline required by military service.

Yes, I would have angst if my sons were in infantry units, but you've got to understand, commanders have a responsibility for their troops that nearly rivals a parents. Trust me, no one wants anyone in their command injured or killed. They do care about the welfare of their troops, don't let Hollywood mislead you.

I could go and on, but I've had a wonderful career, travel has been a dream, kids have had opportunities few civilian kids have, and I'll retire with a decent (and guaranteed) retirement (a lot in the private sector can't say the same), to include a great medical plan! Yes, financially it's been tough at times, I haven't been able to cash in on home ownership like my civilian counterparts as I moved every 1-3 years, but I wouldn't trade the last 20 for a mundane civilian career.

Current score: 2 nephews + myself are AD, youngest son wants to join following med school.

[Moses]

Here's a partial list of military excursions since WWII

Which of these were so threatening to our security that you would risk the life of your son?

World War II (1941–1945)
Korean War (1950–1953)
Cuban Missile Crisis Oct-Nov 1962
Vietnam War (1964–1975)
Invasion of Dominican Republic (1965)
Capture of USS Pueblo (1968)
Mayagüez Incident (1975)
Operation Eagle Claw (1980)
Gulf of Sidra Incidents (1981, 1989)
Lebanon Peacekeeping (1982–1984)
Invasion of Grenada (1983)
Libyan Patrol Boats (Jan-Mar 1986)
Operation El Dorado Canyon (15 April 1986)
Operation Earnest Will (1987–1988)
Operation Prime Chance (1987–1988)
Operation Praying Mantis (1988)
Operation Golden Pheasant (1988)
USS Vincennes shootdown of Iran Air Flight 655 (1988)
Invasion of Panama (1989)
Gulf War (1991)
Iraqi No-Fly Zones (1991–2003)
Operation Provide Comfort (1991–1996)
Somali Civil War (1993-1995)
Battle of Mogadishu (1993)
Operation Uphold Democracy (Haiti) (1994)
Bosnia and Herzegovina (as member of IFOR and SFOR peacekeeping forces, 1995—)
Operation Infinite Reach (strikes on Sudan and Afghanistan, 1998)
Kosovo War (1999)
War on Terrorism (2001—)
Invasion of Afghanistan (2001—)
Iraq War (2003—)
Haiti Rebellion (2004)

[Moses]

Originally posted by mikester
(I don't mean Bush specifically as I think this may have started before him).

Bill Clinton set the record for military deployments.

[fintstone]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moses
[B]Here's a partial list of military excursions since WWII

Which of these were so threatening to our security that you would risk the life of your son?

Personally I thought all were except for these:

Operation Uphold Democracy (Haiti) (1994)
Bosnia and Herzegovina (as member of IFOR and SFOR peacekeeping forces, 1995—)
Operation Infinite Reach (strikes on Sudan and Afghanistan, 1998)
Kosovo War (1999)

I did not personally agree with these actions, but did my duty to support the Constitution and those appointed above me at the time. The rest, I would have certainly have proudly encouraged my child had they wished to serve.....although I could not "risk the life" of my child since it is their choice to take the risk, not mine (a clear distinction). Of course my daughter will be commissioned in the AF in another year in ROTC (currently in the AF Reserve) and I will proudly administer her the oath myself. It takes evn more guts/sacrifice to plan a military career in troubled times like these. Thank God we have adult leadership in the White House for a change.

[Dan Mc Intyre]

Joe,

I disagree with the statement that the military service universally does youth good. When in, I saw it go both ways. I witnessed screwed up kids straighten out, and I saw straight kids exposed to things they may never have seen otherwise and go down hill. Serving is not always a positive experience and should not be imposed across the board.

Dan

[VINMAN]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Should be mandatory for every child, boy or girl, in the country. You grow up a lot and learn things that everyone needs to know in boot camp.

Make it 2 years like many of the other countries where its mandatory. If the kid wants to stay in then they can, otherwise they then move back to the civilian world and hopefully college.

Joe A

I agree! After HS. most kids today are cluless about the basic things in life. mommy and daddy have done everything for them.
The military was one of my best experiences in life.

[ronb]

I don't often comment in political threads (or reallly all that many others), esp due to the partisan stuff that comes up, but this one thankfully is a bit more even.

Mandatory service - absolutely - but why not include the Peace Corps, inner city teaching, inner city rebuilding, rural medical corps, reservation (ie native american) medical corps, 3rd world building projects, etc. This is the way to make responsible national and global citizens out of young adults who will then understand why war and what war really is.

Because to see the rest of the world, the real world, and not the televsion version or the partisan hack version or the version "taught" in most deficient public schools that have had the budgets stripped out of them over the last 30 years, is an eyeopener, and makes one understand that there is a lot more to it than just the red state/blue state, axis of evil, white knights on white horses (in white satin?) divide

A national service requirement is great, but only the military creates yet another class of citizens who believe that the only solution is a military solution. That said...sometimes the only solution IS a military solution...but not lately.

[Seahawk]

Interesting topic, one I have thought about quite a bit. While military service runs deep in both sides of my parents families, there was never any pressure from them for me to seek a commission. My mother was, in fact, not pleased with my choice of becoming a naval aviator given the other opportunities I had.

In my mind, this is not a black and white issue: So much depends on the mindset of the person wishing to join, their motivation and sincerity for wanting to serve. My son is 11 and can't wait to become a Marine Corps pilot (many of my friends are)...but he is 11 so I adopt a very neutral stance. Now, if he comes to me during college and asks me my opinion concerning the Corp and aviation, and his reasons for doing so are not based on peer or preceived famly pressure, I will tell him I fully and proudly endorse his decision.

As a counter to those who would ask their children not to serve, there is a culture in every branch of the service that actively encourages their sons to follow in dad's footsteps.

I have been asked by the eldest son of a very good friend of mine to interview him for a slot at the Naval Academy in Annapolis. The interview is tomorrow and must, according to the guidelines, be video tapped.

I bring this up not because Taylor is an unbelievably great young man, he is, but because all of the interview guidelines I was given.

The first series of questions are very telling: They request that the interviewer ask questions solely based on the candidates reason for seeking an appointment...that they are sincere and have not been pressured in any way. The video tape is key because the tape is reviewed to see if body language, apperance or attitude reflects being pressured to attend the academy.

Lastly, and my only advice, if you discourage service in the armed forces, please don't disparage those who are serving or wish to. I work with some richly talented and wonderful folks every day.

[ronb]

Hi Seehawk, to clarify my comment, I'm not discouraging or disparaging the military aspect, but suggesting that the other options be as strongly promoted, ie not only military service to be seen as the path.

[Seahawk]

Hi Seehawk, to clarify my comment, I'm not discouraging or disparaging the military aspect, but suggesting that the other options be as strongly promoted, ie not only military service to be seen as the path.

ronb,

I apologize for not being more specific: I meant the "universal" you, not anyone specifically.

[stevepaa]

I favor some service for everyone, but military is not for everyone. Peace corps, forestry, community sevice etc are all of value. During Vietnam, I was in ARMY ROTC, but then my lung collapsed during football and my parents rushed me to get a 4F. My Dad is a WW2 Army veteran and his brothers also served, but he was against the Vietnam War as he is against this Iraq War. They were/are not wars that meet the mark.