Everybody can stroke the new Z06 all they want but how can people have so much of an opinion without driving the car? Some of you guys need to stop living by magazine performance figures and stop bench racing. Do raw numbers really matter when your on a sprited drive on back roads? Of course not. What it's all about at that moment is how the car makes you feel. The reason I would never buy a vette isnt because its a chevy but for the fact that it does not have that connected feeling that the 911 has. But I guess I have the best of both worlds since I can still beat the new Z06 in the straights and also have the 911 feel. :)

Agree 99%. Just like my wife will never permit a BMW in the family (she says their corporate hubris is just too intolerable) nor a MB (she says they're "grampaw" cars).

But the Miata is a girl's car. ;)

Right, i wasn't comparing weight, i know domestic v8's are pretty good at being compact and light. Anyhow i stand corrected, I was just imagining in my head how very wide bore engines usually have issues with detetonation because of how far the flame front must travel. That and with all the stess on the rods with that much stoke, and the amount of stress on the rod bearing, etc etc. I stand corrected.

Comparing #'s is the easy part. Have you ever compared them in person? In a tract situation? Do forget you are arguing with guys that track every weekend.

I agree with the short lifespan of a Vette. After 50k miles the joints start creeking like a 90 yr old ladies hips. And $65k for a CHEVY!!!

Let the magazine racers race, I find it amusing! :D These guys know it all since they read C&D, R&T, and MT.....

Okay, I haven't driven the new Z06. But I have driven the standard C-6 Corvette with a "mere" 400 hp, and thoroughly enjoyed every sideways minute of it.

Some here are true Porsche fanatics, but I guess I'm more of a plain old "car nut". I love my 911, but that doesn't make it the only cool car on the road.

You're right, the new Z06 only has a different chassis, engine, and suspension than the standard Vette so you definately have a solid basis for an opinion.:rolleyes:

And I suppose that the guys who write for magazines, who get paid to drive eveythying on the road and compare them, have no valid opinions?

I think a magazine racer is a person who compares cars strickly by reading hp figures and the articles. Not getting in them and driving.

And you know this because YOU'VE driven a new Z06 AND raced one!?

And aren't you being hypocritical based on your second post?

E

I say that most of them either:

A) Like to make themselves sound intelligent or funny. It's pretty stupid to compare the structure of a car (the late Thunderbird) to Katherine Hepburn with Parkinson's. Witty and thought-provoking metaphor, but not technical or of the quality you'd expect of a magazine. I really don't see comparisons like that about foreign cars...those are all either good, better, or best.

B) They like to find fault in everything, and this goes for every car. If the car is parked in their lot, there's something wrong with it. A badge won't be dead-on, an angle of the car will look either too ugly, bland, or whatever. I blame them for the horsepower escalation, which is going to lead to another crackdown like in the past. While nice for performance cars, the jury is still out on whether the public needs 350 hp in an Jeep, or 240 in an Accord.

If we put the Z06 chassis end engine under a 928 shell, took away all Chevy markings, and gave it a backseat, I think some, if not most people here would praise it for being so powerful, having Ti this, Al that. The handling flaws would be "character." We'd put up with the LSx design just like some do with early-mid-70s 911 engines, some of which are proven to be boat anchors, needing rebuilds every 50-100k. If it were produced by Porsche, it would be a "race-derived motor, you can't always expect them to last forever at high rpm."

I've road driven a 996. Do I make a judgment on its track characteristics or qualities?

No magazine racing here. I am sure it is an awesome car. Like I said before I would never buy one. To me its the Lexus of the sports car world, a good safe choice for an unimaginative buyer who likes to follow the masses. If I was going to blow 64K on a sports (pun intended) car I would use my imagination and come up with a much better and more rewarding car to drive. Warranties are not important to me neither is image. I do not buy cars based on image nor do I buy a car based on its SCCA classing or what is hot in the car mags.

Granted there will be a limited number of Z-06's on the road at first but by then end of this generation run they will be everywhere. I see at least one C-5 Z-06 every day and dozens of C-5's everyhwere I go. They are like the Camaros of the 90's.

Again, I am sure it is an amazing car and I am glad Chevy has attained such greatness. It just gives me something to shoot for at the local AX and Open track days.

Actually I'm not because I have driven one. And I expressed my feelings earlier in this thread. I never said it was a POS since it was a Chevy but I said how it felt driving one. Its my opinion and I can base that opinion on experiences I have had, not just magazine numbers and some writers impressions.

Honestly I think the opinions of magazines are skewed. Reason being; how are you supposed to have an objective opinion when the car makers are the ones that pay your paycheck from the advertising? Think about it....

And the above post excludes guys like Phil Hill and Paul Frere who are not puppets.

Of course they're skewed. So are mine, and so are yours. And Phil Hill's opinions are skewed, too.

That's why they're called opinions.

Thanks, you missed the point.

Since we brought out of the woodworks what seems to be a chevy expert. I'm curious, why is the c5r a near million dollar race car if it shares quite a few things with the z06 427? Also, are all these new motors still using pushrod designed v8's?

Yup. The design that eliminates the danger of a broken timing belt. The design that doesn't require adjustment. The design that is NEWER than the overhead cam. The design that seems to get better gas mileage...Malibu V6 EPA estimates suggest it does better than a similar OHC Camry. 22/30 vs 20/28. The design that tends (not in the Z06's case) to have peak torque at a more usable RPM in normal driving. Must I go on?

The subjective case of refinement has no doubt been addressed in the Vette...even the pundits, incredibly, find little to complain about in GM V8s.

The engine parts of a C5/6R is not very expensive. As I mentioned, the block and cylinder heads are cast in lower volume than mass-production GM engines, but they're still available from any GM dealer. The blocks are still 6+ TIMES (!) as much as a production piece ($6395), but a LS2 aluminum block is only about $995. The C5/6R heads (same casting number as LS7 heads) are $900 bare. The Callies 4340 crank that Katech uses in the C5/6R motors runs about $2300.

However, the labor intensive build, machining, and coatings inside a C5/6R make their engines much more expensive than the LS7. Building a motor to the 'n'th degree for that level of racing is expensive, even if the basic parts are not. Still, Katech C6R motors run under $30,000 for a ready-for-LeMans longblock.

There is a lot more that goes into an entire race car than just a longblock. You all know this. I'm not sure that GM would tell you that it costs $1M to build each C6R, but they also have R&D and hand-fabrication for quite a few one-off parts.

As for the pushrod vs OHC debate, well, each has their place. I'm not sure I care where the cam is placed as long as the valves and ports can be uncompromised for velocity and volume of their application. For two valves per cylinder (lower rpm, higher torque, higher port velocity) pushrods are just fine. The motors are certainly more compact.

Yellowline is right about the fuel efficiencies of newer pushrod motors. The 505hp Corvette Z06 (7.0L) is a good example. It is rated at 26mpg freeway. The base 325hp 911 (3.6L) is also rated at 26mpg.

The new 2006 Chev Impala SS has a FWD version of the LSx architecture (aluminum 5.3L V8) which puts out 303hp / 323 ft-lb and is still rated at 28mpg. The 190hp DOHC 24V V6 in the smaller 2006 Toyota Camry XLE is also rated at 28mpg.

Say what you will, the numbers are pretty good.

E