(not really) intelligent design

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Promised link:

Fossil may be ancestor of humans, apes?

(not that this will change the minds of our resident fundamentalists)

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
I think ID people are just lazy.

No its about fear. Fear that their "faith" is misplaced. If they can get their "faith" codified by the schools and courts, they'll feel better about themselves.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by nostatic
No its about fear. Fear that their "faith" is misplaced. If they can get their "faith" codified by the schools and courts, they'll feel better about themselves.

I was being charitable. Who'd have thought?

[Mulhollanddose]

Evolutionary theory...seems like it changes and evolves every time a hole is punched in it...yet still gets used as a steamroller that paves over the obvious. Chaos does not breed order.

No missing link answers the debate.

[widebody911]

If you want to teach creationism, you have all day Sunday in church to teach it.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Evolutionary theory...seems like it changes and evolves every time a hole is punched in it...

Theories have a funny way of doing that, don't they?

It wasn't until the 1960's or so that you christians finally gave up and admitted that the earth does indeed revolve around the sun. That damn scientific steamroller!

[M.D. Holloway]

This reminds me of that Star Trek episode where the meaning of various words got all *****'d up on a particular planet e.g. sun worship vs. son worship and where they read the preamble as if it were Latin.

Creationism is the birth of conscience and soul in man not the beginning of the biological man.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by nostatic
No its about fear. Fear that their "faith" is misplaced. If they can get their "faith" codified by the schools and courts, they'll feel better about themselves.

Ok, might as well jump into this cosmic pool of goo...

I am a conservative Christian who (surprise surprise) believes in creationism. That said, a few years ago, I really struggled with my beliefs - questioned everything, right down to the foundations of why I believe in God. No, this wasn't a one-afternoon "I think I'll deny God exsists..." thing - I really struggled with a lot of the issues like creationism vs. evolution, Christianity vs. humanism, why we are here, how could all this happen, and where in the world are my car keys?

In the end, I concluded the following things:
1. God does exsist.
2. He did not smite me down for doubting and questioning my faith.
3. God created the universe - ie there is intelligent design behind all this.
4. Science cannot prove or disprove the exsistence of God, nor can it prove or disprove the non-exsistence of God.
5. It is impossible to scientifically explain the origins of this universe 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt - no one who was there in the beginning is still around, and they forgot to charge the battery of their cam-corder as well!
6. Because of #5, 'the beginning' of science is based on faith, not fact. Faith defined: believing in something that you cannot see, or in something that you cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.
7. Just because science is based on 'faith,' that doesn't mean it has to be discounted completely. Similarly, just because God and belief in God is based on 'faith,' that doesn't mean that God and His teachings should be discounted completely.
8. My car keys are always the last place I look, which is the place I put them before I lost them.

Again, these were my personal conclusions after countless hours of soul searching, reading, pondering...etc. Like I said, the very foundations of my faith were shaken - and my conclusions actually brought me closer to my God than ever before. But my journey didn't end - I still ponder, wonder, question my faith - so far, it has not changed my world view...

I think too many people on both sides of the argument are hung up on the starting point of creation and evolution. Looking beyond the starting point can often yield deeper discussion and understanding of both sides, IMHO.

I'll get off my soapbox now...
-Z-man.

[IROC]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Creationism is the birth of conscience and soul in man not the beginning of the biological man.

Now that's a new one! There are alot of rabid fundamentalists out there that would beg to differ with you.

Mike

[Z-man]

Originally posted by widebody911
If you want to teach creationism, you have all day Sunday in church to teach it.

But what about football!? Can't we take a couple hours some other day as well, so we can watch our football on Sunday afternoons?!?

[nostatic]

There are scientists who believe in a higher power(s). I don't think any of them advocate teaching ID in school.

Science and religion are not necessarily at odds. But ID is just insecure people trying to ram their beliefs down the throats of others so they can sleep better at night. imho of course.

If you dig Jesus, you might really like Buddha. One thing that is nice about Buddhism is that it is less about faith and more about experience.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by HardDrive
I don't mind if people believe in creationism. I generally assume that these folks are either idiots, or they have very deep religious convictions that override their belief in science.

So why should they teach your belief in science and not someone's else belief in ID?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by Z-man

5. It is impossible to scientifically explain the origins of this universe 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt - no one who was there in the beginning is still around, and they forgot to charge the battery of their cam-corder as well!
6. Because of #5, 'the beginning' of science is based on faith, not fact. Faith defined: believing in something that you cannot see, or in something that you cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

[IROC]

Originally posted by scottmandue
So why should they teach your belief in science and not someone's else belief in ID?

Because you shouldn't be teaching "beliefs" in science class. Simple as that. The theory of evolution is not a "belief". It's a scientific theory. Big difference. ID and creationism are not scientific theories and as such have no business even being discussed in a science class.

Mike

[nostatic]

Originally posted by scottmandue
So why should they teach your belief in science and not someone's else belief in ID?

because "science" has broad acceptance across religions, cultures, and countries. It is a common ground that sparks debate and inquiry, but the process is governed by theory, data, and analysis.

[HardDrive]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
exactly! It's always changing, yadda yadda yadda, so is tradition alone the only reason they keep clinging to evolution alone instead of adding ID? I thought tradition wasn't a good enough reason for anything, to lefties.

Perhaps you should stop running your mouth and listen to what other are saying rather than embarassing yourself.

[Nathans_Dad]

I just can't stand it anymore!! Must......type.....reply.....

Ok, I am a scientist by trade and I do believe in God. I also think God created our world and everything in it. I think he did those things through processes which we now are just beginning to understand and try to explain. I do not believe the Genesis story in the Bible is literal. I think that God has to "dumb down" things so we puny humans can try and understand. I personally think one of God's "days" is probably 50 million of our years.

Bottom line, I am continually amazed at the complexity of the human body and the world around us. It would take a whole lot more faith on my part to believe that everything just sorta happened, like a big cosmic lottery, rather than think there is a higher power that directed things.

Plus, think about it this way: If you believe in God, and are wrong...then you just cease to exist like everyone else. If you don't believe in God and are wrong, then you spend eternity in damnation...I'll err on the side of God.

IMHO, of course.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by nostatic
No its about fear. Fear that their "faith" is misplaced. If they can get their "faith" codified by the schools and courts, they'll feel better about themselves.

Or perhaps that shoe is on your foot.

Evolution theory has been slaughtered by ID, that is why they near black-out any dissenting presentations.

[scottmandue]

Why do you Darwinian evangelist make ID a religious issue anyway, are there not scientists spending millions of dollars searching for intelligent life somewhere out in the universe?

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Evolution theory has been slaughtered by ID, that is why they near black-out any dissenting presentations.

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