The Honorable John P. Murtha

[Nathans_Dad]

CC, how is standing up in the Senate and calling for the immediate withdrawal of troops and then not voting for a resolution that calls for the immediate withdrawal of troops "the right thing"? It was a political stunt that was answered with another political stunt.

Gotta love the left.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
CC, how is standing up in the Senate and calling for the immediate withdrawal of troops and then not voting for a resolution that calls for the immediate withdrawal of troops "the right thing"? It was a political stunt that was answered with another political stunt.

Gotta love the left.

That's not what he called for. Nice spin though...

[CRH911S]

Heck, even on Meet the Press today they put up several graphics from people like Kerry and Reid who made statements saying they disagreed with Murtha's position. He was thrown up there to make an extreme speech and got burned on it.

I think you missed Murtha's point. Iraq has a constitution and it's time to redeploy our troops. Bush doesn't have a clue and Murtha should be leading our troops. At least they would be killing each other instead of Americans. These people have been killing each other for thousands of years. What is it you don't understand?

[Joe Bob]

Halliburton.....

[fintstone]

Originally posted by CRH911S


I think you missed Murtha's point. Iraq has a constitution and it's time to redeploy our troops. Bush doesn't have a clue and Murtha should be leading our troops. At least they would be killing each other instead of Americans. These people have been killing each other for thousands of years. What is it you don't understand?

How is it any different than Korea, Yugoslavia, Haiti or any of the 110 places where we stationed GIs during the Clinton administration.

As posted earlier..Mutha was caught with his hand in the cookie jar and played into Republican hands. Liberals are never willing to have their anti-American rhetoric actually recorded with a vote...and were not willing to this time. They ended up having to vote against their own words. If it was not so sad...it would be laughable.

[CRH911S]

fintstone, you don't understand Murtha and that's why I question the sincerety of your support for our troops. I'm sure there's something financial going on here. Next time, instead of 10 days try 10 months.

[creaturecat]

Originally posted by fintstone
..................Liberals are never willing to have their anti-American rhetoric actually recorded with a vote...and were not willing to this time. They ended up having to vote against their own words. If it was not so sad...it would be laughable.

so....... attempting to save American lives is called anti-American rhetoric. How many more American deaths before you are satisfied? Do all the troops have to die? If you were not so laughable .....it would be sad.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by CRH911S
fintstone, you don't understand Murtha and that's why I question the sincerety of your support for our troops. I'm sure there's something financial going on here. Next time, instead of 10 days try 10 months.

Wow, that was pretty cryptic.

Ok, I will agree that I don't understand Murtha....or anyone who would have us cut and run...making all the current sacrifices worthless. If you can explain it....please do.

I also do not understand the 10 days/10 months. We have been in Korea for 50 years and in Yugoslavia for 10. People in the military die every day, even in peacetime....as do people in almost every profession.

Lastly, what do you mean by "something financial?" Do you meant that Murtha is getting some sort of payoff?

[fintstone]

Originally posted by creaturecat
so....... attempting to save American lives is called anti-American rhetoric. How many more American deaths before you are satisfied? Do all the troops have to die? If you were not so laughable .....it would be sad.

Apparently for Democrats it is...when they say it ...but will not vote for it.

If we pull out now...and have to go back, there will be tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths instead of thousands. The ones that are helping us now will all be executed and no one would ever side with us again.

If you were not so clueless, it would be sad...but since you are, laughable really fits the bill.

[Nathans_Dad]

Did you guys even watch him on Meet the Press this morning? He HIMSELF said he was for the immediate withdrawal of troops. Yes, he said that withdrawal would likely take 6 months to occur, but he wants the withdrawal to start NOW.

Wait wait...I guess now even MURTHA doesn't understand MURTHA...right?

Try arguing what he actually said rather than what you think he should have said.

Section 1. The deployment of United States Forces in Iraq, by direction of Congress, is hereby terminated and forces involved are to be redeployed at the earliest practicable date.

[cool_chick]

I don't know what's so hard to understand about "earliest practicable date."

If his resolution called for immediate withdrawal of troops, the Republicans wouldn't have needed to draft one of their own to be voted down that DID in fact state immediate withdrawal of troops.

[Tobra]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Well there's racists everywhere, and that is most certainly not party-specific.

Edit: It's the same thing as the idealogy that republicans have "morals" then Newt goes out and gets some strange on the side....

Lack of morals isn't party-specific either.

Being a dirty lying back-stabbing SOB who would do anything to advance his/her personal and party agenda isn't either. It amuses me to no end when someone from the right or left tries to paint all their opponents with the same brush.

BTW, earliest practicable date is pretty damn vague, you must admit. It does not delineate anything at all, requirements to satisfy. It is like making pornography illegal then when someone asks you about it, you tell them you will know it when you see it.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Tobra
Being a dirty lying back-stabbing SOB who would do anything to advance his/her personal and party agenda isn't either. It amuses me to no end when someone from the right or left tries to paint all their opponents with the same brush.

BTW, earliest practicable date is pretty damn vague, you must admit. It does not delineate anything at all, requirements to satisfy. It is like making pornography illegal then when someone asks you about it, you tell them you will know it when you see it.

Well I've just never seen democrats kick out their own (POLITICIANS). It seems to me that the Republican (POLITICIANS) are so hung up on this unattainable "moral" reputation (it's an impossible goal for all their members to have the same views on sex, etc.) that they'll go so far as to stab their own in the back.

This is where I can paint with a brush, because I haven't seen much to the contrary.

I could be wrong, Democrats may do it too, I just haven't seen it..... If so, steer me, I'm open to suggestions.

Yes, I do agree it is vague. But someone's got to do something...either send in tons of troops, get this country under control, or leave. The "course" is not working.

At the very least, I do not think it's unreasonable to request a timetable, project plan on how they're going to get this country ready...from what I see, all that happens are backward steps.....

[Joe Bob]

They coud have said..."whenever"....that woulda been just as ambiguous.

[rcecale]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Well I've just never seen democrats kick out their own (POLITICIANS).

Tell that to this guy...



edit: And for the record, Zell was/is every bit as much of a Marine As Murtha.

Randy

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by rcecale
Tell that to this guy...



edit: And for the record, Zell was/is every bit as much of a Marine As Murtha.

Randy

What did the democratic party do to him? Not arguing, just curious. Is this the only one you can think of?

[rcecale]

Well, there were the "anti-Zell" commercials, but I suppose you didn't see them in Chicago...

Click here.

Not just the party, but even individuals as well...

Click here.

Even Jimmy Carter had this to say:

To Sen. Zell Miller:
You seem to have forgotten that loyal Democrats elected you as mayor [of Young Harris] and as state senator. Loyal Democrats, including members of my family and me, elected you as state senator, lieutenant governor and governor. It was a loyal Democrat, Lester Maddox, who assigned you to high positions in the state government when you were out of office. It was a loyal Democrat, Roy Barnes, who appointed you as U.S. senator when you were out of office. By your historically unprecedented disloyalty, you have betrayed our trust.

Great Georgia Democrats who served in the past, including Walter George, Richard Russell, Herman Talmadge and Sam Nunn, disagreed strongly with the policies of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and me, but they remained loyal to the party in which they gained their public office. Other Democrats, because of philosophical differences or the race issue, like Bo Callaway and Strom Thurmond, at least had the decency to become Republicans.

Everyone knows that you were chosen to speak at the Republican National Convention because of your being a "Democrat," and it's quite possible that your rabid speech damaged our party and paid the GOP some transient dividends.

Perhaps more troublesome of all is seeing you adopt an established and very effective Republican campaign technique of destroying the character of opponents by wild and false allegations. The Bush campaign's personal attacks on the character of John McCain in South Carolina in 2000 was a vivid example. The claim that war hero Max Cleland was a disloyal American and an ally of Osama bin Laden should have given you pause, but you have joined in this ploy by your bizarre claims that another war hero, John Kerry, would not defend the security of our nation except with spitballs. (This is the same man whom you described previously as "one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders --- and a good friend.")

I, myself, served in the Navy from 1942 to 1953, and, as president, greatly strengthened our military forces and protected our nation and its interests in every way. I don't believe this warrants your referring to me as a pacifist.

Zell, I have known you for 42 years and have, in the past, respected you as a trustworthy political leader and a personal friend. But now, there are many of us loyal Democrats who feel uncomfortable in seeing that you have chosen the rich over the poor, unilateral pre-emptive war over a strong nation united with others for peace, lies and obfuscation over the truth, and the political technique of personal character assassination as a way to win elections or to garner a few moments of applause. These are not the characteristics of great Democrats whose legacy you and I have inherited.

Randy

[cool_chick]

Well that dude belonged at the RNC anyway. I can't think of one democratic belief he possesses, his voting record is very republican, etc. Based on this, I never understood why he ran under the democratic ticket.

I wonder, has a republican ever spoken at the DNC? I mean, IMO, that's pretty bad........no?

[Nathans_Dad]

Nice comeback CC. Love how you say that the Dems never did anything to Miller then when you are proven wrong your response is "yeah, well he deserved it anyways..."

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Nice comeback CC. Love how you say that the Dems never did anything to Miller then when you are proven wrong your response is "yeah, well he deserved it anyways..."

I didn't say he deserved it. But genuinely, don't you think that's kind of bad? I'm being genuine here. Has one spoken at the DNC? How would you feel if a republican spoke at the DNC? Serious. If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand.

I also asked if this is the only one you can think of. I don't think one person shows a trend that this happens all the time or anything..,... Because sure, they did lambast him, but they didn't discredit or ruin him and ruin their careers like the republicans do to their own (or did they...I'm willing to view that too). They just lambasted him.

I can think of quite a few republicans.

And what's this? etc.? You're not 12, are you? Can't we act like adults?