Protests, the troops, and my friend

[nostatic]

So my friend who has spent the last 6 months in Iraq was back in the states for 10 days and I had a chance to catch up with him in person. We talked about a lot of stuff, but I specifically asked him about anti-war protests and their effect on the troops over there. For background, he spent those 6 months repairing x-ray units in the field, traveled throughout the country via military transport, and bunked on bases in a number of cities. Becuase of the usual down time, he had a lot of opportunity to talk with enlisted and officers alike.

According to him, only the very young raw recruits are "gung ho." The rest are over there to do their job, but they know that their mission is not very clear cut. And many of the older guys just want to keep safe, keep their buddies safe, and get back home.

wrt protest here, he said unequivocally that from his conversations they have ZERO negative impact on the troops. Some of the troops realize that some/many of the protesters are just losers looking for something to do. But there were plenty of soldiers who had a positive view of the protests...their view was that the freedom to protest is a reason that they are over there. ie it is one of the cornerstones of democracy, and they were there to fight for it.

Sorry if this bursts some of your guys bubble. Maybe there are a small number who get upset by the protests, but my buddy didn't run into a single one. And he met a LOT of our guys over there.

[lendaddy]

Assume I have no opinion on how they affect our troops:

Do you think they also have no effect on the enemy?

"Look, their own people riot in the streets against their governments evil actions" etc.. ect..

It's a decision each person can make and they have every right, but their actions are not without consequence.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by lendaddy

It's a decision each person can make and they have every right, but their actions are not without consequence.

you can say that about any action you take. Like driving your car.

The other comment my buddy had was, "the baddies want one thing: an islamic state/govt. They don't give a crap about what anybody else says or does, and they will fight until they get it."

[kach22i]

Originally posted by nostatic
wrt protest here, he said unequivocally that from his conversations they have ZERO negative impact on the troops.

I've read that same thing from a guy who took of a bunch of pictures of the returing troops (some of his old buddies).

[techweenie]

The dwindling number of war supporters want to paint our troops as delicate and vulnerable, and the enemy as avid consumers of US TV and newspapers... and even blogs. Neither is true.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by techweenie
The dwindling number of war supporters want to paint our troops as delicate and vulnerable, and the enemy as avid consumers of US TV and newspapers... and even blogs. Neither is true.

Not sure who you are talking about but I have heard no one "painting our troops as delicate."

Have had lunch or dinner with Navy, Army and Air Force people the past week and not one of them were vulnerable, unless we count last night when we had the tequila shots and Betsy and her Aussie nurse friends from Dahrain got a bit friendly...

I am in the middle east right now and while they may not read American newspapers or see our TV, CNN is doing a fine job shoving it down the throats over here. Its very interesting to see the difference between Sky News, BBC and CNN over here.

Agree that neither is true.

Joe A

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by nostatic
So my friend who has spent the last 6 months in Iraq was back in the states for 10 days and I had a chance to catch up with him in person. We talked about a lot of stuff, but I specifically asked him about anti-war protests and their effect on the troops over there. For background, he spent those 6 months repairing x-ray units in the field, traveled throughout the country via military transport, and bunked on bases in a number of cities. Becuase of the usual down time, he had a lot of opportunity to talk with enlisted and officers alike.

According to him, only the very young raw recruits are "gung ho." The rest are over there to do their job, but they know that their mission is not very clear cut. And many of the older guys just want to keep safe, keep their buddies safe, and get back home.

wrt protest here, he said unequivocally that from his conversations they have ZERO negative impact on the troops. Some of the troops realize that some/many of the protesters are just losers looking for something to do. But there were plenty of soldiers who had a positive view of the protests...their view was that the freedom to protest is a reason that they are over there. ie it is one of the cornerstones of democracy, and they were there to fight for it.

Sorry if this bursts some of your guys bubble. Maybe there are a small number who get upset by the protests, but my buddy didn't run into a single one. And he met a LOT of our guys over there.

Interesting that in another thread you cited this logic in an attempt tp discredit the discourse: "You go from "majority" and then offer one example."

Now you employ the same sample size and claim that, "this bursts some of your guys bubble".

Sorry, but I have a very large sample size of friends who are on their second and third tours (I have been there as well) who beg to differ. Their well earned thoughts on the negative effect protesters have on the moral of their troops is an opinion set I admire and cherish.

While I respect your friends service, please stop trying to further your own ends based on ones mans opinion.

My bubble is full of the memories of dear friends who have fought and died in Iraq...nothing you or any other person will posit can burst it.

[Usmellgass2?]

Any body old enough to remember Vietnam knows damn well how negative and damaging an irresponsible press and pack of attention grabbing "peace advocates" is. And even worse is the Aid and Encouragement it supply's the enemy. The collapse on the home front clearly destroyed Germany's and Russia's ability to wage war in the First World War. Anybody can talk any amount of crap they want to achieve self appeasement or political gain. But it is a clear fact that any public display that we lack the will to finish a fight will embolden our enemies, kill and maim our troops and weaken our global image. This is plane and pure common sense, I find it repulsive that people like Shehan and the likes of Jane Fonda to attempt to argue other wise.

ps Army 11B w/ CIB. I remember

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Usmellgass2?
Any body old enough to remember Vietnam knows damn well how negative and damaging an irresponsible press and pack of attention grabbing "peace advocates" is. And even worse is the Aid and Encouragement it supply's the enemy. The collapse on the home front clearly destroyed Germany's and Russia's ability to wage war in the First World War. Anybody can talk any amount of crap they want to achieve self appeasement or political gain. But it is a clear fact that any public display that we lack the will to finish a fight will embolden our enemies, kill and maim our troops and weaken our global image. This is plane and pure common sense, I find it repulsive that people like Shehan and the likes of Jane Fonda to attempt to argue other wise.

ps Army 11B w/ CIB. I remember

Well said. Isn't it strange how those with combat experience or are actually in the military or in-theater typically see it one way...
and those with "friends" who visited see it another?

[Joeaksa]

Anyone with a CIB has been there and has a salute from me. (wonder how much time Tech and Shaun will waste figuring out what a CIB is? )

Flint its not strange at all, but very interesting how these "armchair Generals" back home know it all and a few of us who have been there are dismissed?

Joe A

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Anyone with a CIB has been there and has a salute from me. ...

Same here Joe. Stay safe!

[nostatic]

i don't think i've ever considered myself an "archair general." And I suppose you might consider my single source "one example" but he has talked to a LOT of people in theater (his terminology).

But if your experience is otherwise, then it seems like there is evidence for both sides of the argument.

that whole "shades of gray" thing. But I also understand how some have trouble with that concept. Certain types of training exist to remove any element of "gray thinking." And that is not offered in a perjorative manner...just the way it is. I remember when I took the MMPI, given by my ex-in law who tested potential LEO recruits. He said they wouldn't want me because I was way too "gray" in my personality and thought patterns.

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by nostatic
i don't think i've ever considered myself an "archair general." And I suppose you might consider my single source "one example" but he has talked to a LOT of people in theater (his terminology).

But if your experience is otherwise, then it seems like there is evidence for both sides of the argument.

that whole "shades of gray" thing. But I also understand how some have trouble with that concept. Certain types of training exist to remove any element of "gray thinking." And that is not offered in a perjorative manner...just the way it is. I remember when I took the MMPI, given by my ex-in law who tested potential LEO recruits. He said they wouldn't want me because I was way too "gray" in my personality and thought patterns.

So, your whole, "shades of grey" ethos only applies to your mind set, not those who disagree with you?

You have no idea how or what I think, nor my methodology for arriving at my conclusions. The fact that you continue to trot out your shop-worn paradigms is tiring at best.

"Grey" has the same consequences as "black". I have no trouble with the concept, only your application of it.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Anyone with a CIB has been there and has a salute from me. (wonder how much time Tech and Shaun will waste figuring out what a CIB is? )

Flint its not strange at all, but very interesting how these "armchair Generals" back home know it all and a few of us who have been there are dismissed?

Joe A

Oh Joe, please. Show us all a pic of your badge.

It's shameful and one-dimensional that you think the only way to serve our Country as a true patriot is through military service. Think bush or cheney know what a CIB is?

You are slipping.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Seahawk
So, your whole, "shades of grey" ethos only applies to your mind set, not those who disagree with you?

You have no idea how or what I think, nor my methodology for arriving at my conclusions. The fact that you continue to trot out your shop-worn paradigms is tiring at best.

"Grey" has the same consequences as "black". I have no trouble with the concept, only your application of it.

yeah, that's why i think i'm done with my shop worn paradigms.

You guys are 100% right. There is no room for argument or dissent, as your opinions are based on experience and undeniable fact. I retract my arguments. My buddy clearly is biased or is lying. And I clearly can't come up with a cogent argument to save my life.

I'm tired. I'm out. I'm going to the range.

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by nostatic
yeah, that's why i think i'm done with my shop worn paradigms.

You guys are 100% right. There is no room for argument or dissent, as your opinions are based on experience and undeniable fact. I retract my arguments. My buddy clearly is biased or is lying. And I clearly can't come up with a cogent argument to save my life.

I'm tired. I'm out. I'm going to the range.

Have fun at the range...nobody said that you were wrong, only that there are shades of grey when opinions are given about a very volitile subject.

Your friend is niether biased or lying...his opinion is as valid as my friends. The breath of emotion in a time of war means that when you say our bubbles are burst, perhaps there is room for arguement. You can surely understand that.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by nostatic
yeah, that's why i think i'm done with my shop worn paradigms.

You guys are 100% right. There is no room for argument or dissent, as your opinions are based on experience and undeniable fact. I retract my arguments. My buddy clearly is biased or is lying. And I clearly can't come up with a cogent argument to save my life.

I'm tired. I'm out. I'm going to the range.

Your buddy may well be biased...after all, that is most likely why you are buddies.

It is also quite possiblel that a guy who is fixing x-ray machines may simply see, or be shown, a different Iraq than those who are in the field killing terrorists and watching their friends be killed.

I must say that although I know that my service military defends/defended the right to protest, I have never met a military man or woman (myself included) that was positive about people protesting the military or an ongoing war...just the opposite. While it does not upset me (because I have come to expect it), I am greatly disappointed, but understand that they are either misinformed, stupid, or have some sort of political agenda.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
Oh Joe, please. Show us all a pic of your badge.

It's shameful and one-dimensional that you think the only way to serve our Country as a true patriot is through military service. Think bush or cheney know what a CIB is?

You are slipping.

Shaun, thats one reason that I respect the Combat Infantry Badge so much. Its an Army only award and given to men who have been in combat. Doubt that they have one for the G9 girl doll as women are not allowed to be in combat.

Bush would probably not know as he was Air Force and not the Army. Glad that you know everything that both Bush and Cheney know and someday you can enlighten us? Vegas perhaps?

To expand our dimensions, please tell me how you serve the country? How many years did you serve in the Peace Corp, helping the homeless, volunteering for community service and so on? While its not anywhere near the same, its a start and I am sure that you have many years overseas helping the mis-treated and poor.

Joe A

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by nostatic
yeah, that's why i think i'm done with my shop worn paradigms.

You guys are 100% right. There is no room for argument or dissent, as your opinions are based on experience and undeniable fact. I retract my arguments. My buddy clearly is biased or is lying. And I clearly can't come up with a cogent argument to save my life.

I'm tired. I'm out. I'm going to the range.

Do not feel at all that your buddy is lying or biased. He may have been in areas that are not as hot as others. The Brits down South for a long time did not even wear any body armour because the locals were nice and friendly.

There is always room for other ideas, this is what this great country was founded on. It would bolster your argument if there were more than one source and it was not someone who is not already biased like Shaun.

Have fun at the range. Remember that the Canadians and Aussies cannot even go to the range with their pistols these days. The govt took them away... Lets not let that happen in the US.

Joe A

[Scuba]

Originally posted by nostatic
Maybe there are a small number who get upset by the protests, but my buddy didn't run into a single one. And he met a LOT of our guys over there.

Your buddy must travel in very small circles - or has very selective hearing.

In my experience, a first hand account is more reliable than third hand...