Yes, Mazda's plant was a joint venture with Ford, and subsequently Mazda is 100% Ford from what I understand.

So the true Japanese (Toyota, Nissan, Honda) plants are non-union? No wonder they build world class quality cars that are best-sellers.

>Earlier you mentioned GM's crappy cars. Which do you feel has/had a greater effect on GM's position?

The subpar cars are somewhat the result of the unions. There is union labor representation at all levels of design and manufacturing preparations. They lobby for ease of assembly rather than high quality. And the accountants have to cheap out on materials used in the interiors so they can fund their workers lifetime healthcare needs and generous pensions. Money for those things doesn't grow on trees.

Crappy cars indeed.... My parents recently rented a new Malibu and I got to experience it from the rear seat. Apparently there was no bracing between the (non foldable) rear seat and the trunk so under acceleration (if you can call it that), you ass/lower back would sink thru the backseat material right into the trunk !!! Great feeling...

My only issue with GM's demise is that it may well bring down the country's economy, as far as their products go, no great loss.

Strange. The Chevy site says all Malibu sedans for sale to the public have 60/40 folding rear seats. A legitimate issue though, rental cars do not give a good image of what is for sale to the public.

And no, it isn't a Porsche, in terms of acceleration. But there's the Z06 to take care of that pesky problem...have fun slaying any 911 varient and scaring a CGT in a straight line. That is, if the driver can manage the clutch enough to get the CGT off the line.;)

Was it a last-gen Malibu or Classic? Those aren't good, I'll agree.

Seriously, GM spent over $700m on the new Malibu and its platform. It isn't a bad car by any means.

And again, rental cars are meant to be junk. Everyone beats on them, nobody buys them for the long haul. Why spend more on making a car with uplevel features when all that market wants is to get from A to B? If the car stranded you, I could see a problem.

The Malibu 'Classic' is the old-bodystyle that dates back to 1996, but is available to rental fleets. The new bodystyle (Epsilon platform) that came out in 2003 as a 2004 model is a great car, even the rental versions.

E

Holy crap. All that and they couldn't have afforded more than $0.35 for a design?

I work in the aviation industry.
With my previous employer, I was able to watch a few mal-contents cry out for unionization. Because the NLRB is nothing more than the government arm of the Unions, the NLRB regulations required that the workers have their opportunity to discuss their complaints with a union of their choosing.

I heard first-hand the union propaganda; I heard the reps tell the workers that they were mistreated and underpaid; I heard them promise everything short of the moon. The workers all rallied and called for a vote, which passed.

6 months later, the doors were closed and all workers were unemployed. Why? The legal expenses of representing the company in union proceedings, coupled with a mysterious lull in worker productivity (resulting in missed deadlines and lost revenue) combined to bankrupt the company. (small company - not a lot of reserves to handle such a situation)

In retrospect, they discovered what management already knew: The company was paying between $2 and $4 per hour more than comparable jobs in the area, and the company was paying a full 60% of every workers benefits expenses (medical, dental, and life). I think seeing a company pay this much toward your medical is uncommon. I know this is something that my wife does not get, even though she works in the medical field!


Not surprisingly, I am fully against unions. I believe that they are bad for businesses, and bad for America.

Actually, the Malibu Classic is rental and fleet only - it is not available for sale at your local Chev dealer. They decontented the car in 2004. All 2004, 2005 Malibu Classics are strippo 4 cyl 'CAFE' fighters.

Tooling DOES age and wear out. They are crappy, even when new. The new 'Epsilon' Malibus are built to a much higher standard.

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Yup. MAlibu classic, that was it... A classic indeed ! But still, that car -albeit rental fleet only - carries the flag for them in my book, after riding in it I would never consider setting foot in their dealerships... Quicksand rear seat and all ;-)

You can't buy a NEW Malibu Classic, so let's see how a prospective buyer may see it:

You can buy a used 2005 Chev Malibu Classic 2.2 rental return with under 30K miles for under $10,000.

A comparably equipped 2005 Toyota Camry 2.4 rental return with under 30K miles is just under $16000.

They are very similar cars on paper. Similar in dimension, horsepower, weight, fuel mileage, etc.

I know they are not of the same feel or quality, but if someone wants a newer car with reasonable room for five to get from A to B, either will do the job. Neither are exciting cars. People DO buy cars as appliances.

But, I can fix a lot of s**t for $6000. I could even buy a full coverage extended warranty to 100K miles and still be $3000+ ahead of the Camry.

There is an ass for every seat.

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Unfortunately, GM can't find enough/any asses to fill their seats. The resale prices of the Toyota and Chevy seem to bear this fact.

GM still outsells Toyota, and Honda combined. They are finding customers. Maybe not as many customers as they need to keep their plants running at a pace that keeps the unions happy.

Honda has a better philosophy in my opinion. When demand drops, they produce fewer cars.... just enough, or a little less, to meet demand.

The Big Three can't do that. It costs them too much to let their workers and plants lay idle. So they HAVE to sell cars. If the supply is too high, or demand its too low, they slash prices (rebates, incentives, dog-and-pony shows). When that isn't enough, they dump units into fleet.

The unions are breaking the Big Three.

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Labor unions strike again.

Sometimes I can't help but believe that the left's intention is to do nothing but create discord, unemployment, and institutional dependence.

GM is its own worst enemy. Too much ingrained stupidity to react to changes in the market in time - and absolutely NO ability to think proactively. Yea, let's take an economy that's on the brink of recession with gas prices erupting and pump out thousands of SUVs and Hummers every month. Great idea! Same with not seeing the trend in health care costs and trying to do something about it earlier (not to mention, how many residents of Detroit - particularly automakers - are "pictures of health" so to speak?)

GM has come to exemplify everything I think is wrong with the "conventional" big-business American corporate model. Big, boring, bland and vapidly stupid.

They better start thinking like a small company again and putting some of their remaining creative talent to use or they're going to be the next incarnation of Delorean - or worse, Chrysler soon.

Are companies like GM legally able to kick out the unions?

Well, not really. If you pay 95% of $25000 MSRP ($23750) on a Toyota and 80% of $24000 MSRP ($19200) on a Chevrolet (because of heavy incentives), you started out saving $4550. Add tax, and the cost to carry the money, and you're over $5000.

So when the Toyota is worth $6000 more when it's a year old, everyone gloats. Or some media source quotes a 75% resale value on a Toyota, and only a 53% resale value on the Chev. Well, you saved it up front, but because they calculate resale / residual from MSRP, it looks bad.

Attempts to market American cars in a different way, repricing them so that the MSRP is realistic, has not worked. The American public is used to $10000 off a new Suburban, not paying sticker, even if the sticker is $10000 less. They've screwed themselves. Even Saturn, GM's non-negotiating best-price company, has had constant incentives the last couple years.

Changing GM's fortune isn't in the product as much as it as perception. It will take small changes at every level to be truly competitive. Not just the unions. Not just design. Not just pricing / incentives. Pervasive change.

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Sad times for GM, but the real heartbreak will be felt in towns like Flint and Lansing.

Actually COMMUNIST China is one big union :) :)

Not without getting the walmart treatment by the unions, democrats, and the activist media. I would imagine GM's treatment would be far worse given the unions have a preexisting stranglehold.

In short, GM would be bankrupted out of existance if they dared such a company saving, job saving, move.

Northwest Airlines, here in Minneapolis, has effectively broken their mechanic's union. They filed bankruptcy about the same time they hired all new replacements for the mechanics.

I see the GM thing going down in a similar fashion. Delphi's union troubles will be the catalyst. Delphi's strike will hault GM plants. GM will then file bankruptcy and break the UAW in the process.

GM has been running their plants OVERTIME in the last couple months. Because they are seilling lots of cars? NO WAY. They are building up inventory, 6 months supply in some cases, so they can weather the Delphi storm.

It's coming.

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