No. They can renegotiate. That is it.

They cannot talk about de-unioning. The workers themselves can't even vote the union out, even if they wanted to.

My dad just bought a new 2006 Impala. He hated the previous generation Impala's, but decided to give Chevy a try again since the current Impala is (supposedly) changed quite a bit and it looks better (at least the back end is better).

I tried to get him to buy a Toyota Avalon, but he just didn't warm up to the Avalon's styling and $34k price tag. Anyway, the new Implala that he bought is quite nice (and I'm not a big fan of GM offerings). Fit and finish is very good and the car rides and drives well. It's not a floating sofa, yet it is not harsh either. The new 3.9 V6 is a hoot with 240 hp. It's definitely the nicest 4 door GM sedan I've ridden in in awhile.

Last spring, I test drove a 2005 Buick LaCrosse (because the dealerships were offering a $100 hotel voucher with a test drive). It was the base model with the aging 3800 V6. Floating Sofa. Terrible. Even with the large rebates that were appearing on such a newly introduced model, I'd never buy such a boring car. Man, it floated and leaned around corners, yet was uncompossed on rough pavement. They were marketing the LaCrosse to more younger buyers in the 35-45 age segment (which I fall into), but man, I was totally disinterested.

Mul - Yeah, but Walmart isn't hurting. Maybe the average American doesn't care about unions, no?

Kaisen - I'm airline ignorant. Northwest is still around, aren't they? So filing chapter 11 to get rid of the unions wasn't such a bad idea...if it worked.

Legion - that hardly seems fair in a legal world...to a lot of people. So now I see one reason jobs have gone overseas is because of the unions. Or am I oversimplifying it, or entirely incorrect?

Look at the bright side, Michael Moore has another opportunity to exploit the labor union created GM troubles, and make enough money to buy back into Halliburton.

Yeah, a nice '06 Impala LT (3LT pkg, 3.9L) is around $25K, with real transaction prices around $23K. Even a loaded LTZ with BOSE and heated leather is under $28K, real around $25K.

I know the Avalon is a nice car, but is it worth $10K more?

I find the 06 Impala SS to be the best choice, with a 5.3L V8 putting out 303hp and 323ft-lbs and 28MPG! The price is about the same as the LTZ. Avalon? Is that what I passed?

E

Kaisen,

You're 100% right in the pricing, gas mileage and assesement on the Avalon. The last time I checked the web, the V8 was rated 1 mpg higher on the freeway than the 3.9 V6. I would assume in real world driving (not EPA testing), the V8 will drink more, but hat's off to Chevy for shoving a V8 in the Impala with respectable gas mileage. The car performs well with the variable valve timing 3.9 V6 and must really haul with 323 ft pounds of the V8.

My dad and I took an '05 Avalon for test drive, and while the Avalon is just a rebadged Lexus ;) , he too could not justify the Avalon since he trades his cars every 24 months and longevity is not an issue with him. Saving $10k and investing it was a factor verses having it in a depreciating vehicle.

Regards,

Jay

They're not putting their newest cars out as rentals. Then that diminishes their resale value for the public's Malibus 3 years from now, since everyone will say "ha, that's a fleet type of car, POS." But it's a catch-22, because people find a reason to perpetuate the bias by driving a brand-new car that's a 10-year old design.

They don't build the cars to be crap, they just keep building cars that are past their prime and selling them as fleet models.

Whoa! What an excellent point.

And to substantiate that is the new Mustang GT. The chassis is the same as was used on the Ford Fairmont from the late '70s. But at the same time, Ford has refined and refined it to the point that the car has been touted as a serious handling machine (within reason, of course - it's no Elise or 911), yet I'm sure it's more than most drivers can handle on any non-track situation.

Great info, btw on the Impala. Funny how the car magazines don't talk up the American products unless it's the Corvette, Viper or on occasion, Mustang - especially when one sees who's paying the lion's share of the car magazines' advertising.

That description also applies to my 944 at 60 MPH. Probably did when new, too. Even if it isn't a purist Porsche, look at the crest on the hood...it shouldn't be doing that, it's a lil' furrin car. ;)

Misinformation. The retro-style Mustang is all new. The last GT was based on the Fox platform from the '70s.

It's even OHC, so you can't complain about that.

Hmmm...I've read in so many magazines the chassis is the same, that I believed it. Possibly they meant no IRS.

I've seen only a few reviews on the new Impala and they are just one page type reviews and are short. But, it seems car mags like them (though I agree that Impala reviews probably don't sell magazines like Viper reviews).

It's a car worth a look if you need a sedan. I was impressed and I'm picky. Again, that V8 model must haul @ss in that relatively light (by today's standards) car.

Jay

Bingo! How many of us on this forum own a GM, Ford or even any American car? I have not owned one for years (25+) and this is due to the fact that they have not made anything that I wanted and the Europeans did.

Right now the only American vehicle I could even think of needing would be a truck should I need to tow or haul something. In terms of a drivable car, the Corvette might come close if I had to buy American, otherwise the American makers are stuck in the same old rut, trying to build crapwagons that last maybe 5-7 years then totally fall apart. Look at how many '70's and '80's 911's are out on the road now then compare them with the same year Ford or Chevy.

Its sad but as long as they keep building cars like this I will have to look at imported cars in my household.

JoeA

Last vehicle I owned (before the Porsches) was an '88 GMC pickup. It'll absolutely be the last American-made vehicle I own. Pure junk.

It's sad to see jobs lost. No one know better than the auto workers, the kind of cars they are turning out. They know that the cars are not quality but really cannot do anything about it as they are not designing them...They just assemble them.

On the other end, many GM car dealers did not help the situation one bit. Their attitude and lack of service has turned away at least 2 generations of the car buying public..never to return.

When you send you child off to college and want them to have good reliable transportation what would you put them in? Most would say, Nissan, Toyota, Honda. Just a fact....

Correct me if I'm wrong, union people, but that is how the federal labor laws work. Once you are unionized, you can't go back.

Joeaksa-

You own a Ford. It's your Jaguar S-type. Same as a Lincoln LS, but with a smaller 3.0L V6 from the Taurus (with Jaguar-specific cylinder heads). I kid a little. Quite a few of 'us' own an American truck or SUV. Even Wayne is looking to buy a GM Suburban, not a Cayenne or X5.

Porsche-O-Phile-

You are basing your opinion on a nearly twenty year old product? That's like me hating all Porsches because my 87 924S was a P.O.S. Or Loving all Porsches because my 89 911 was so great I decided to buy a 97 Boxster (P.O.S.) Your experience with the 88 GMC may have had something to do with it being the first year of the model. BTW, the 88-98 GM full-size trucks were considered some of the best trucks made. Maybe a 1990 would have been a different story.

kqw-

There is no doubt that the dealerships play a role in an automakers fate. Saturn is the inverted example. Saturns are very milk-toast cars, but their dealer experience has created a cult-like following. Yes, Saturns are very 'reliable' cars, but they are still a GM product, made with GM parts, and it costs just as much to service and fix them. The point is that if GM dealers adopted Saturn's dealer model, maybe the perception of other GM cars would be better. Or Fords, etc.

I would put a college kid in a Saturn SL1 any day.

E

Our local Chevy dealer is exceptional with service. Super nice, always prompt, no B.S. I have have about 4 other friends and family members that have their Chevy's serviced there and they all state the same thing. Prompt, quick, reliable service with good techs. This dealership needs to compete and they do it with good service. My dad got his Impala there (that I mentioned above) and the deal there was better than anywhere else and there was little need to haggle since they came out swinging with a decent deal up front.

However, there are other GM dealerships in the same area that I wouldn't set foot in (sales or service departments). Like every other brand, you have to find the dealerhip that treats you right and don't go back to the one's that are poor. That applies to my Honda and my Porsche. I have two Porsche dealerships in my area. One SUCKS and the other is good.

My point exactly. People conveniently neglect to mention that Japanese cars of that vintage, especially in the Northeast, have rotted and returned to where they came from.

If you really want a BMW or Mercedes, but you give the new Cadillacs a fair chance, I have no problem with that. But people who buy a car, any car, just because some pundit or idiot journalist thinks it's the $hit, are sheep in my book. Same for people who eschew one brand because of 25-year old perceptions.

I'm proud to say that I plan on buying American for my first new car...that is, if the American public can hold off on driving them overseas or bankrupt for about 8 years.

My first new car was a GM. A 2000 Pontiac Grand Am GT. It was reasonably quick, handled well, and was nicely put together.

After four years and 40,000 miles, I sold it to a friend (who still has it) and bought a Porsche and a pickup truck. My friend still loves the car, and considers it a great deal (even though she paid me top dollar for it). Other than replacing oil changes, spark plugs, a battery, and a new set of brakes, it hasn't needed any unusual maintenance in over 5 years.