Ok, CC and Rodeo. Please point me to a quote from a Democrat where they acknowledge that the welfare state is broken. If "most Democrats" don't defend welfare, this should be easy for you...

Steve,

I think that people that are physically unable to work for medical or psychological reasons already are placed into the disability program. So we are really talking about those who are medically able to work but cannot or will not. I am for assistance programs with a time limit, say two years. In this program you would be trained with a new skill to use in the workplace. Same program I outlined about 2 pages ago in this thread (Rodeo, howcome you keep saying no one is putting up a plan? I have seen at least two proposed).

Your program, Steve, would be wildly expensive BTW. Can you imagine sending every poor person in this country through a full battery of medical and psychological testing? Yeesh.

How about evidence: Clinton fixed it. 5 year lifetime max. I think your views on welfare laws are skewed (or maybe more accurately, outdated).

And in return, show me actions that the Republicans in power have done even one thing to address it further with all the power they now have....surely this should've been addressed by now...and not even a little peep in the form of a bill out of them....

Actions speak louder than words, my friend.

Clinton FIXED IT?? That's so out of touch it's laughable. Man, I feel much better now knowing that our welfare problem has been fixed by Clinton. WHEW.

Please elaborate. What would you do? What do you know about the welfare reform bill?

And when will your party ever address it further (answer...never.....they're not about what kind of stuff....remember, actions speak louder than words......I can't think of one action by republicans with regard to this topic)

CC, I am not a Republican. Sheesh. It is not MY PARTY. Sorta like me talking about the Democrats as YOUR party. As I understand it you are very adamant about being a Libertarian...

Ok crap, I thought you were.

I'm sorry. Won't happen again.

I'm just wondering though, since you feel like Clinton fixed the problem with the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996...which party was in power in Congress in 1996? Who authored that bill? And which party voted for it and against its passage?

I am under the impression Clinton led the initiative for the bill. That guy was pretty moderate, despite the inaccurate attempts to paint him otherwise.....

And why aren't the republicans, knowing full well anything just about anything they draft will be passed now, not doing anything about it?

On August 22, President Clinton signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 Conference Report to accompany H.R. 3734, the controversial legislation which repeals the 60 year old social safety net for the poor and requires welfare recipients to work. The legislation is very much like H.R. 4, the previous welfare bill that the President vetoed at the urging of NOW and other advocacy organizations. And, like the previous bill, the President received severe criticism from community activists, women's rights, social service advocacy, labor, minority, and religious groups in embracing this Republican-led effort to change the Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) program. In response, the nominee promised at the Democratic National Convention that he would to make welfare reform "successful" by helping to create a million new jobs by the year 2000, with tax credits for companies who hire welfare recipients and from state plans which may utilize "savings" from welfare program cuts to create jobs for recipients.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=1996_Personal_Responsibility_and_W ork_Opportunity_Reconciliation_Act

Still think the evil Republicans do nothing to try and fix welfare?

Who said evil? And yes, I do think they're doing nothing to fix welfare further. They certainly can, but they talk about flag burning and give billions to anyone who asks.

You laughed earlier when I said "fixed." Now are you saying it's fixed?

And yes, Clinton actually campaigned on reforming welfare.

This was your original post. "I can't think of ONE ACTION"...

How about the welfare reform bill in the first place? Isn't that an ACTION?? You seem to be under the impression that Clinton swooped down and passed a Welfare Reform Bill. In fact, it was the "Contract with America" Republican led Congress. I have been trying to get the voting records but haven't been able to. The Sentate vote was 78-21 though. Wanna bet which party the 21 "nays" were in?

And no I don't think it's "fixed" based on the recent review of the New Jersey Welfare Reform initiative which still showed a 48% rate of continued unemployment at 5 years while on the program. That doesn't sound fixed to me.

I'm telling you, it was under the direction of Clinton. He even campaigned on it.....just like balancing of the budget.

Now why in the hell are the republican led congress/president acting like liberals?

That's the question of the day. The Republican party sucks, IMHO. By the way, Clintons welfare reform was a well intended but empty piece of legislation that is largely ignored by the states, who write the checks. In fact our beautiful city by the bay actively subsidizes homelessness! We give weekly cash payments to homeless people. I'm not kidding! No checks, as that would be unfair to the tenderloin transients who have no bank accounts. If you are homeless, it would be foolish to live anywhere else.

Rick, I think the cost overall would be much less than we have now. It will require more personal involvement. Again sort of like parenting, teaching. Good teachers do it all the time. So do good parents.

Oh ok, since you told me it was under Clinton's direction and he apparently did it all by himself without any help from the Republican led congress it must be so...you told me so...

This is 4 years old, but seems a pretty good indication that Welfare reform was successful in getting lots and lots of people off welfare.

It seems odd, Rick that you are going after liberals and democrats pretty hard on the welfare issue, but (1) "the culture of dependence" seems a relic of the past, and (2) after 5 years in control of the executive and legislative branches, the Rupubs don't appear to think welfare is an issue. If they do, they certainly have put forth no proposals to make it better, much less enacted them. So what's your specific problem with welfare today?


Aug. 22, 2001 -- Five years ago today, a massive overhaul of the nation's welfare system was signed into law. "Welfare should be a second chance, not a way of life," then-President Bill Clinton said as he approved the bill. The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act imposed a five-year lifetime limit on assistance to welfare recipients. That cap kicks in this year and next for tens of thousands of families. ??Clinton faced vehement protests from some of his staunchest supporters when he signed welfare reform bill. But today, the measures aimed at getting people off assistance and into jobs are generally deemed a success. At its peak in 1996, Aid to Families with Dependent Children -- the main government program providing income assistance to the poor -- had a caseload of 4.55 million families. It is now less than half that.

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/welfare/010822.welfare.html

By the way, I'm not saying welfare today does or does not work. I really have heard almost nothing about the program, good or bad, in years. I certainly didn't perceive it as a hot button conservative issue.

The conservative agenda today seems to be abortion, gay marriage, tax cuts, environmental deregulation, and curbing litigation.

It is indeed odd. It's appears they genuinely don't care about the issues and addressing them, they only care about finding a way to put the blame on liberals and democrats for anything.....

Putting words in my mouth?

It was under Clinton's direction. Of course congress helped...things like this can't be passed without BOTH congress (including democrats in Congress) AND the president. That's how it works in these parts. Still doesn't change the fact it was under Clinton's direction though. Try as you might to spin it that it was all the Repubicans doing, it wasn't....


This is what Clinton said on signing:

"This is not the end of welfare reform, this is the beginning, and we have to all assume responsibility," Clinton added.

When the hell is this going to happen? It's prime time for this.......