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-   -   Iran's president: Holocaust a myth, US and Isreal should be wiped out (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/256153-irans-president-holocaust-myth-us-isreal-should-wiped-out.html)

930addict 12-14-2005 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee
...930, most Americans today wouldn't stand up and fight for the same reasons our founding fathers fought the Revolution...
I agree with you 100%.

techweenie 12-14-2005 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee
930, most Americans today wouldn't stand up and fight for the same reasons our founding fathers fought the Revolution.


We may not agree on much, but we agree on this, Rick. Many here sound to me as if they do not support the Bill of Rights. Plenty clearly do not understand the reasoning behind the separation of church & state.

But in Revolutionary times, only about a third of the population was for breaking free of England. A third wanted to stary a colony (Tories) and about a third just din't care that much, one way or the other.

Rick Lee 12-14-2005 01:26 PM

Oh here we go. There is no separation of chuch and state in the Bill of Rights. That term is a court creation. The First Amend. only bars the establishment of a state religion. I'll make a wild guess and say they had the Church of England in mind. I don't think they were thinking of the horrible nativity scenes the Redcoats left behind in each town they sacked.

Joeaksa 12-14-2005 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neilk
At the height of Baywatch in the US, there were numerous articles about Iranians putting up illegal satellite dishes so they could watch Baywatch as well. Rick is right, the average Iranian likes the US, it's the government that is the problem.
Agree and I know several people from Iran, or Persia as they like to call it.

They like America and the ones I have spoken with outside of America (and out of Iran as well) are for the most part very "Westernized" and not marching in lockstep with the religious zealots.

That said, the religious zealots are in charge of the govt and the day to day running of the country. How to change it is a good question but Iran is still actively supporting terrorism on a DAILY basis so it needs to stop. The majority of the SHAPE (explosive) charges that are being used in Iraq these days are smuggled in from Iran, so their hands are bloody in this fight.

JoeA

deathpunk dan 12-15-2005 05:10 AM

You know I can't stand most of the self professed Proud Righties on these forums or anywhere, but Iran is a quickly becoming a Problem.

I have no qualms about Israel launching strikes. I hope they do to Iran's nuclear capabilities what they did to the egyptian air force way back when.

Rick Lee 12-15-2005 05:22 AM

Dan, we might as well do it with Israel. Because we WILL be blamed for anything they do. It's not like the Israeli Air Force is gonna get to Iran without our clearing them to fly over Iraq.

onewhippedpuppy 12-15-2005 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by techweenie
WTF? Iran had a democratic election and this is who won.

Same thing is going to happen in Iraq.

Where's that picture of the old Iraqui ballot when you need it? One box with Sadamm Hussein, the other that says "Please kill me and my family". Somehow I think the only thing democratic about the Iranian election was it's name.

Rikao4 12-15-2005 06:30 AM

Lee, they may tell us..might as well tell CNN, a few will know... but just look the other way..they don't need our permission. Israel is very good as this.
Rika

island_dude 12-15-2005 06:32 AM

The political situation in Iran is not as simple as a lot of you seem to claim. As a people they are largely for American and would like better relations. The theocracy is able to manipulate the slate of candidates to ensure that the options are limited. They (the theocracy) were caught flatfooted by the election of Hatami. They honestly thought the population as a whole supported them. I have no idea why they elected this loser.

With the public quietly protesting the power base a number of people in the US think it would be great to offer our support to the people of Iran to rise up against the clerics. Bush essentiall did this a couple of years back. Iranians have a nationalistic streak. This the perfect way to get there backs up. They want their own identity and hate the thought of being under US control (again).
I expect that the problem in Iran will take care of itself. The people will eventually get rid of these folks. Most of the population is too young too remember the reasons for the revolution and just want to have a decent life.

Rick Lee 12-15-2005 06:37 AM

I agree with Island. I think the Iran problem will likely take care of itself. I sincerely hope it does before it reaches a critical mass, provoking an Israeli and/or American intervention.

Wrecked944 12-15-2005 07:20 AM

Iran scares the ever living crap out of me. And everything I read about the new leaders of Iraq (DAWA and SCIRI) says that they are extremely close to Iran - that nearly all of them spent years in Iran and are being pretty openly funded by the mullahs. Sistani was born in Iran. The Shiite militias currently infiltrating the new Iraqi army were mostly trained, organized, and equipped by Iran. I mean, my god, is the newly elected government in Iraq really being run by a group calling themselves the "Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq"?????? Someone please tell me I should not be having nightmares about this! Please, anyone with better information than my own...please make me feel okay with this!

legion 12-15-2005 07:28 AM

IIRC, the clerics in Iran have the power remove candidates from the ballot.

I agree that Iran will probably fix itself eventually, but only if we can prevent the people in control from getting nuclear weapons. If they do acquire them, I can't see anything preventing them from using them on their own people to maintain control.

Wrecked944 12-15-2005 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JanusCole
Iran scares the ever living crap out of me. And everything I read about the new leaders of Iraq (DAWA and SCIRI) says that they are extremely close to Iran - that nearly all of them spent years in Iran and are being pretty openly funded by the mullahs. Sistani was born in Iran. The Shiite militias currently infiltrating the new Iraqi army were mostly trained, organized, and equipped by Iran. I mean, my god, is the newly elected government in Iraq really being run by a group calling themselves the "Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq"?????? Someone please tell me I should not be having nightmares about this! Please, anyone with better information than my own...please make me feel okay with this!
Wow, the silence on this question is deafening! Should I assume this means Iranian mullahs really are taking over and I need to start digging my fall out shelter right now!!!:eek: Please, somebody tell me it's gonna be okay!

techweenie 12-15-2005 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JanusCole
Wow, the silence on this question is deafening! Should I assume this means Iranian mullahs really are taking over and I need to start digging my fall out shelter right now!!!:eek: Please, somebody tell me it's gonna be okay!
It's a mess. We no longer have Saddam as a bulwark against the Mullahs of Iran and there is enormous influence being applied to the Iraqis. Thousands of bogus Iraqi ballots were stopped from being trucked in from Iran. We don't know if they got them all.

I agree, there's a dichotomy between people who appreciated the "Westernized" world that the Shah and Saddam were helping foster and those reacting against it and wanting a return to fundamentalism. But the fundies seem to have the ability to weild power more effectively than those for reform (something we are arguably facing here as well).

No, it's not going to 'be all right.' Not for a long, long time; hundreds of billions and thousands of lives. The Iraq invasion upset a balance of sorts. The means were ugly, but the end result was relative stability.

If Israel decides to fire missiles at Iran's nuclear facilities (aren't they all in residential areas?) all bets are off, and you'd best have that fallout shelter done!

stevepaa 12-20-2005 08:35 AM

There is a goodly number of Iranian boomers who do not like us, suffered under the Shah's police, rejoiced at the overthrow of the Shah, and hate us for the downing of the airliner. The under 30 crowd may lean western, but they are not in command.

Tobra 12-20-2005 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JanusCole
Wow, the silence on this question is deafening! Should I assume this means Iranian mullahs really are taking over and I need to start digging my fall out shelter right now!!!:eek: Please, somebody tell me it's gonna be okay!
It's gonna be okay, did I say stop digging:eek:


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