Indecisive Abe, just the facts

[snowman]

Indecisive Abe, just the facts. Lincoln was called Indecisive Abe. Why? On another thread I called him our worst president, and some agreed with me, WHY?

Lets start digging out the facts on this president, one by one, just the facts, good or bad. Lets make a list, at least 25 valid facts about ole honest Abe. Then lets re nominate the worst president ever.

I will start with the biggest one, the civil war. Could he have avoided it? Should he have avoided it, What if he had avoided it? Hard to say but he ended up with hundereds of thousands of dead americans and hate that has lasted over 100 years and extends to this very day.

Now lets get into the real man, what made him tick and why.

Lets start with an incontestable fact, he was called indecisive Abe, WHy?

PS

Pat, please stick to historical facts and leave the extensive libertarian stuff for another topic. I think Abe can be pinned down with very conservative facts, no need to get carried away. By conservative I mean stuff that no one will roll their eyes over. Of course once they find out what Abe really was up to they may have to roll their eyes over and over and over.

[DavidI]

He was schitzo.

[juanbenae]

one thing about abe, he hated when a second thread was started from a premise in another thread. come to think of it abe and i have something in common.

[Rodeo]

I can't decide if he was indecisive. One part of me thinks he was, but another part thinks he wasn't

[Superman]

Well, he faced the possibility that slavery would just fizzle and die of its own weight. He balanced that againts the potential that a conflict would create hard feelings a hundred years later.

So.....a conflict would create 100 years of hard feelings, but perhaps slavery would just be abandoned. Hmmmmmm......

And then what did he do? He sat on this problem and was frozen with fear and indecisiveness? Friends, it doesn't appear as though he was wishy-washy on this.

Describe to me his indecisiveness in this regard. Gosh, there was a speech he delivered on the site of one of those battlefields in which his indecisiveness is difficult to discern.

You guys must know a LOT more about history than the current population of scholars.

[snowman]

Any american history major (college) knows Abe was indecisive. That was his nickname.

[Halm]

Super, Google "Indecisive Abe". These guys might, and I emphasize the word "might" be on to something. The Lerone Bennett book might be an interesting read.

[Halm]

Sorry, meant to say David Donals'd book. . .

[snowman]

Heres a good summary

http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws198.htm

[Superman]

Originally posted by Halm
These guys might......be on to something.

They certainly are. They're making laughing stocks out of themselves. I could build an argument that Adolf Hitler was the most charitable, kindest supporter of the Jewish community in all of human history that could convince someone who knows nothing of who he was. The rest of the world would stop taking me seriously. That's what these guys are doing. Attempting to show off......and accomplishing the exact opposite.

I describe my observations and ask for an explanation of how they can be consistent with this indecisiveness theory, and Snowman's response is essentially (Yep, he was indecisive.......some other folks agree with me). Great explanation, Snow.

We know Lincoln suffered from chronic, acute depression. This would make decisions very difficult for him. Looks to me like he shook it off when it counted.

But again, if you're from the South, and you're still sore about getting your ass kicked by the North, then this guy is the perfect whipping boy. Problem is, whipping him gets you dismissed intellectually. No matter how smart you were hoping we'd think you are.

[snowman]

From the north, my family was one of the first to free its slaves, voluntarily, way before lincoln, and to actively campaign against slavery.

Well researched book and a review of it
Lincoln the Man (Hardcover)
by Edgar Lee Masters

Debunking the Lincoln myth!, July 27, 2004

Reviewer: Brian E. Orgeron (Loranger, LA United States) -
Masters hit the nail on the head! Lincoln was a commie who setup corporate welfare, high taxes, and a never-ending quest for power. It is thanks to Lincoln, and the Republican Party that we have big government to this very day. This book along with Thomas Dilorenzo's book the Real Lincoln should be on the desk of every student in America. If only to show that Lincoln was nothing but a consummate politician! Far from being the "great humanitarian" Lincoln was a racist who once stated that Jesus Christ was an illegitimate child, and never proclaimed Christ as his savior, nor was he ever baptized. Mr. Masters did a very good job of helping debunk the Lincoln myth!


A lot of people letting their ignorance show when they defend Lincoln.

[stevepaa]

Snowman,
I read the article. Nothing indecisive there. And nothing new. Lincoln's goal was to maintain the Union at all costs. Freeing the slaves was never in the decision to wage war to defeat the secessionists.

[Superman]

Okay, I read the worldfreeinternet piece, and re-read the Emancipation Proclamation. And my assessment is this:

Unchanged. The worldfreeinternet piece is packed with uncomplimentary conclusions about Mr. Lincoln, and devoid of even the slightest thread of evidence other than other folks' opinions and conclusions. It said that any read of the Emancipation Proclamation would quickly illustrate Mr. Lincoln's racism. So I read it again. And again, if anybody had the guts or foolishness to outline for us the specific evidence there of his racism, I would be shocked to my core if that outline did not sound like a tortured, twisted, "Area 54," tinfoil hat 'I was abducted by aliens' pathetic attempt at intellecutalism. You guys are making yourselves look silly. I took a class in college called "logic." It would be a good course for some of you.

And here's the kicker: It wouldn't matter if Abe was a racist. Consider that, and its implications. On second thought....nevermind.

[Halm]

Originally posted by stevepaa
Snowman,
Lincoln's goal was to maintain the Union at all costs.

That too, is what I was taught. But in contrext of David Donald and Lerone Bennett, Jr, I will at least question that "text" and do some research on my own.

[snowman]

Hal,

You are correct in that Lincoln stated that his goal was to maintain the Union at all costs, see following letter by Lincoln. But like a letter from GW Bush it can't be taken at face value, but in lite of all the knowledge that there is on Lincoln and his true actions and feelings.



Copy "borrowed" from book "History of the American Peoples 1840-1920 by John Majewski, UCSB a natoriously left wing hot spot.

THis letter should however dispell any myths about Lincoln doing it for the slaves.

[Superman]

I never thought he did it for the slaves. There is a much better reason.

[stevepaa]

Snowman, It seems you are the only one not understanding why Lincoln did what he did.

And how was he indecisive?

[jkarolyi]

So what's next, Snowman, George Washington bashing?

I swear, I'm tired of Southern Californians trying to re-write American history to suit their liberal "America is horrible, corporate controlled, and is to blame for all evil in the world" viewpoint. I work for a University, and this plague is so rampant it's scary.

[Superman]

I think he's busy digging up dirt on Mother Theresa. I wish all liberals could be reasonable. Like me.

[stevepaa]

Jay, I really don't think it has anything to do with "liberal".