This scares me

[EdT82SC]

This was sent to me by a libertarian friend of mine. This is from a blog entry by the author James Moore posted at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/branded_b_13272.html on January 4, 2006.

James Moore is an Emmy-winning former television news correspondent and the co-author of the best-selling Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential. He has been writing and reporting from Texas for the past 25 years on the rise of Rove and Bush and has traveled extensively on every presidential campaign since 1976. But he was recently placed on the "No Fly Watch List."

The story by James Moore:

I made it a point to arrive very early at the airport. My reservation was confirmed before I left home. I went to the electronic kiosk and punched in my confirmation number to print out my boarding pass and luggage tags. An error message appeared: "Please see agent."

I did. She took my Texas driver's license and punched in the relevant information to her computer system. "I'm sorry, sir," she said. "There seems to be a problem. You've been placed on the No Fly Watch List."

"Excuse me?"

"I'm afraid there isn't much more that I can tell you," she explained. "It's just the list that's maintained by TSA to check for people who might have terrorist connections."

"You're serious?"

"I'm afraid so, sir. Here's an 800 number in Washington. You need to call them before I can clear you for the flight."

Exasperated, I dialed the number from my cell, determined to clear up what I was sure was a clerical error. The woman who answered offered me no more information than the ticket agent. "Ma'am, I'd like to know how I got on the No Fly Watch List."

"I'm not really authorized to tell you that, sir," she explained after taking down my social security and Texas driver's license numbers.

"What can you tell me?"

"All I can tell you is that there is something in your background that in some way is similar to someone they are looking for."

"Well, let me get this straight then," I said. "Our government is looking for a guy who may have a mundane Anglo name, who pays tens of thousands of dollars every year in taxes, has never been arrested or even late on a credit card payment, is more uninteresting than a Tupperware party, and cries after the first two notes of the national anthem? We need to find this guy. He sounds dangerous to me."

"I'm sorry, sir, I've already told you everything I can."

"Oh, wait," I said. "One last thing: this guy they are looking for? Did he write books critical of the Bush administration, too?"

I have been on the No Fly Watch List for a year. I will never be told the official reason. No one ever is. You cannot sue to get the information. Nothing I have done has moved me any closer to getting off the list.

There were 35,000 Americans in that database last year. According to a European government that screens hundreds of thousands of American travelers every year, the list they have been given to work from has since grown to 80,000.

[on-ramp]

so what happened? you can't fly now since you're on the list?

[Seahawk]

Why are you afraid...I am on the watch list, can't print a boarding pass from my computer nor can I use a credit card to use the electronic check-in at the airport.
Every time I show my military ID to the airline folks, we laugh as I wait for approval...it takes about five minutes.
I fly quite a bit, so I always plan to get there early...if you have a better solution, pipe up.
The article was specious, BTW: "My friends tell me it is just more government incompetence. A tech buddy said there's no one in government smart enough to write a search algorithm that will find actual terrorists,"...please.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by Seahawk
Why are you afraid...I am on the watch list, can't print a boarding pass from my computer nor can I use a credit card to use the electronic check-in at the airport.
Every time I show my military ID to the airline folks, we laugh as I wait for approval...it takes about five minutes.
I fly quite a bit, so I always plan to get there early...if you have a better solution, pipe up.
The article was specious, BTW: "My friends tell me it is just more government incompetence. A tech buddy said there's no one in government smart enough to write a search algorithm that will find actual terrorists,"...please.

if they keep letting you fly even though you're on the list, why don't they just take you off the list?

apparently common sense is not in the vocabulary of those idiots up in Washington.

[Nathans_Dad]

Maybe it was the time Moore had tea and crumpets with bin Laden...

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by on-ramp
if they keep letting you fly even though you're on the list, why don't they just take you off the list?

apparently common sense is not in the vocabulary of those idiots up in Washington.

Geez, I don't know, maybe it's because they think I'm someone else, and when I can prove I'm not that person, all is well...but the other guy with my name is still a numbnuts who poses a threat?

How would you solve the problem, what is your common sense solution?

[nostatic]

the point of the article is not the existence of a no-fly list (or more accurately termed, profiling). It is the use of that for political reasons. A friend of mine is on it and travels so much that he now flys under a variation of his name. It is insane...this is one of the brightest guys in the country and so far from a terrorist its ridiculous. But he's on the list for some reason...

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by Seahawk
Geez, I don't know, maybe it's because they think I'm someone else, and when I can prove I'm not that person, all is well...but the other guy with my name is still a numbnuts who poses a threat?

How would you solve the problem, what is your common sense solution?

the first step is to eliminate the no-fly list.

[Nathans_Dad]

Well, this guy implies that he is on it for political reasons, but there is no way to prove that. He may have had some dubious contacts in the past, or maybe he is like Seahawk and just is on there because of a similarity to another terrorist. I don't pretend to know, but I would say it is impossible to say that he is on that list for simply political reasons.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally posted by on-ramp
the first step is to eliminate the no-fly list.

Now there's a bright idea. Let Zawahiri himself fly coach on American...

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by nostatic
the point of the article is not the existence of a no-fly list (or more accurately termed, profiling). It is the use of that for political reasons. A friend of mine is on it and travels so much that he now flys under a variation of his name. It is insane...this is one of the brightest guys in the country and so far from a terrorist its ridiculous. But he's on the list for some reason...

Really? Thanks for the tip in. Show proof that the list is political, that was my point. And I am a fair dink'um from a terroist as well.

Redskins go down in flames...go 49'ers.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Seahawk
Really? Thanks for the tip in. Show proof that the list is political, that was my point. And I am a fair dink'um from a terroist as well.

sounded like you were making a general justification of the no-fly list (which I don't have a problem with). But it is managed...umm...in an "interesting" fashion.

and how do we know you're not a terrorist? You *are* on the no-fly list after all....hmm....

[aways]

Originally posted by nostatic
A friend of mine is on it and travels so much that he now flys under a variation of his name. It is insane...this is one of the brightest guys in the country and so far from a terrorist its ridiculous. But he's on the list for some reason...

Minor comment: Just because your friend may be "one of the brightest guys in the country" is irrelevant to the question of whether he should, or shouldn't, be on a terrorist watch list. I suspect that many of the most dangerous terrorists are in fact quite intelligent.

[cool_chick]

If I were a dangerous terrorist, I'd travel under a fake name.

[EdT82SC]

Another problem is the list is a guilty with no chance to prove innocense. Since he doesn't happen to have a military ID he doesn't have a "get out of joil free card". The guy has been trying to get off the list for a year, and they won't even tell him why he is on the list even after he tried to sue to get that information. So he can't prove he's on the list for political reasons. I think in this case he has to assume the worst since he is not allowed to get any information. It think that due process should be allowed, and anyone should be given an opportunity to get off the list.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by on-ramp
the first step is to eliminate the no-fly list.

Exactly right. If someone has been put on such a list, his 4th Amendment rights protection should automatically be triggered, together with the ability to sue the airlines for cooporating with the government to harm people.

Watch for this list to expand to a No Gun Purchase list and the number of lists to grow.

MAY I SEE YOUR PAPERS PLEASE!

[snowman]

A no gun list will trigger internal terrerists like the OK city one. Clinton, due to Waco, and some other actions got the zelots all riled up and almost started a civil war, closest we have ever come to a new one. It dosen't take a genus to understand that the 2nd ammendment is the last defense against an out of control government, so anyone who threatens to take guns away is toying with the cavemen who are holed up waiting for ww111 or the gov to take our guns. I for one do not want to be involved in such a war, so I will do anything I can to help protect the rights of all americans to own guns. A good threat is good prevention. Guns stop more crime than they cause.

[on-ramp]

the no-fly list is almost as useless as the color code system they have. doesn't do anything to prevent terrorism.

[mikester]

In my opinion the list seems to be a case of guilty until proven innocent.

Well, that shouldn't fly at all should it.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by aways
Minor comment: Just because your friend may be "one of the brightest guys in the country" is irrelevant to the question of whether he should, or shouldn't, be on a terrorist watch list. I suspect that many of the most dangerous terrorists are in fact quite intelligent.