Yeah, tech, sympathy is fine, if that's all you're looking for. But in MY book, respect is much more valuable. And believe me, you don't have to be liked to be respected. Try not to confuse the two.

Randy

Parts of the world yes. Others were crocodile tears or simply out and out jumping for joy.

Well I agree and I am but those are off topic for this thread.

..."I have a much, much better chance of being hurt walking home from work"...

Not if I walk you home. I'll even carry your books.

;)

I completely agree on #1. As for the root causes - well that's pretty much a slam dunk (Israel and US troops in ME). If you want to support abandoning allies (Israel) and walking away from the most important region in the industrial world, then by all means run it up the flag pole see what kind of reaction you'll get. Other non-root causes can definitely be examined...

I'm pretty sure the 45% of Iraqis who support shooting US soldiers have a certain amount of respect, but they don't like us. And to me, the fact that our soldiers are being shot at and ambushed with bombs, trumps whatever playground mind game that 'respect vs. liked' thing relates to.

>The libs don't have an answer for this one.

>The most obvious answer would be that our military and our government have taken measures to protect us and those measures are working. Unfortunately this explanation would force the libs to say that Bush actually did something right, which would cause their heads to spin around like in the Exorcist.

I think you nailed it there, Rick. Also a well reasoned, agenda-free post by RKC.

Jay, As I pointed out above. Nonsense.

I do not agree. IMO, you're simplifying the issue. Wanting us out of the ME is another symptom of the root cause.

And IMO, Israel has is no innocent bystander here.....they have been real bastards for decades.

And BTW, I don't understand how Israel is the most important region in the industrial world...they really don't have that much there to offer the world.... On what level do you feel they're most important?

Without addressing and dealing with the root causes, it will never, ever go away or even reduce....it absolutely needs to be part of the solution.

Edit: awesome conversation BTW, it's nice to get beyond "dems", "pubs", with us or against us, etc. (Go Team Republicans, Go Team Democrats crap) drivel....

Well, tech, would you rather have your "45% of Iraqis", or any other terrorist group taking potshots at American civilians while they're at work...here in the states? While it doesn't prevent it, our troops have been trained to be on the lookout for these things. Your average Joe or Jane Businessperson certainly has not.

You know, I've thought a lot about your comment, "the US had the sympathy of pretty much the entire world after 9/11". You weren't the first person to say this, and for the most part, it's true. My issue with that statement is this: Is this how you want our country to be perceived by the rest of the world? A country to have sympathy for, a country to be pitied? I certainly don't!

Randy

I'm sorry, but I do not see the relevence of this statement to tech's post, no matter what the U.S. does in Iraq.

The obvious answer is based on facts, what you know to be true. Not what you hope or think is true.

What are you, a member of the "reality-based community?" Have some faith, dude! We don't need actual evidence that anything Bush and Co. have done has actually made us safer! We believe!

Faith is a beautiful thing. Makes everything so much easier :)

I worry about people of faith making decisions in this Country. By definition, faith annuls critical thinking and good decision making.

ID is the best example. "I don't have the mental faculties to explain the world around me, so God made it."

"We haven't had an attack in 4 years, so the bush admin has protected us."

Forget taht the entire southern border of the Country is wide-open with Mexican Military paid by drug cartels crossing over on a regular basis. Substitute cartel for terrorist and no security whatsoever at the train station here in Boston and voila, you've got a bomb in Grand Central Station in 3 hours.

What's frustrating is that when confronted with evidence such as a CIA determined attack frequency based on intelligence, they just push it aside. "Doesn't fit in my single-mode way of thinking, can't be real." See crtitical thinking argument above. :(

Don't start bashing Christians again Shaun..it's disturbing to see the trend developing in your posts:

If you can't win an argument, then just start bashing people of faith.

And here I thought you guys were all about being inclusive and loving each other...

Rick, first, no trend. Or please find it with at least 3 data points. Second, quite the reverse. You are relying on the neocon tactic: can't answer? no problem, just attack the opposition and cast doubt on their point of view.

Since when is objective data bashing? Are you telling me that faith encourages critical thought?

Who are you guys?

Lastly, I am Christian. I choose to eschew organized religion and instead take everything I need in life from the Gospels and Acts.

LOL.

I love it. Classic Shaun post.

Step 1: Get the word "neocon" in there somewhere.
Step 2: Pull the double Polish reverse manuever and somehow accuse the person you just offended of attacking you.
Step 3: Make an outlandish statement like "Faith doesn't encourage critical thought" and call it FACT.

Please proceed with your lunacy, my attempt to cast some realistic light on the subject is over.

LOL.

Classic Rick post.

Step 1: make an assertion with no evidence.
Step 2: have that assertion challenged
Step 3: deflect, deflect, deflect while spinning the challenge

±Nothing to see here. Movel along.

More like a classic example of people talking past one another. He didn't insult you or your faith Rick. Religion relies, at it's core, on faith. All the data in the world cannot give you faith or take it away. Pretty sure that's all he said.

Gotta say, that's a good observation. Unless the reference to "God" somehow made the 'faith' argument exclusive th Christians, it didn't appear to be "Christian bashing."

Odd how often that is perceived around here, though. It's as if some Christians think the concept of monotheism is exclusively theirs. Maybe we should just sbstitute "Yaweh" or "Allah."

The point is that we have a secular government by design. We, of course, have the option to meld religion with our reasons for voting for a particular politician. But I find it hard to believe that the majority of Americans truly support 'faith-based' over 'fact based' decision making in the white house.

Really Rodeo? You think the above statement is a reasonable one?

Shaun doesn't think "people of faith" should be making decisions in this country. Really. Wow, that pretty much rules out 80% of the population who believe in a higher power.

It also rules out every single President that I can think of on both sides of the aisle. It also would mean the vast majority of Congress would have to resign.

Making an asinine statement like that IS offensive to me.