what's up with the nasty attitudes some Porsche owners have?

[Obin Robinson]

i don't think i'm the only one to notice this, but i KNOW i'm not the only one annoyed by this:

whether or not some of the people here realize this... the Pelican Parts Board exists for Porsche owners to help each other out, exchange information, and seek advice. the pelican parts BBS faq can be accessible by anyone around the world with a computer that can connect to the internet. Pelican Parts spends money to advertise their business to people, and i've seen their ads in many magazines.

some people seem to be using this place as a way to either vent their aggressions, claim their superiority over other people, or just plain old put down other members of this BBS. i see them posting nasty things to other people and not in a joking manner. it's easy to tell a joke from a nasty comment, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out the difference between a nasty comment and something intended to be taken with a grain of salt.

right on the Pelican home page, it says "Select here to enter our electronic bulletin board, where you can trade stories, questions and tips with fellow Porsche owners." i don't see ANYWHERE that it says that the BBS is for insulting other people, their personal tastes, or their nationality. i hate to say this, but i see this on the 911 board A LOT more often than on the other boards (and i DO take the time to check them all out).

how do you think this looks like to the innocent outsider? the Porsche 911 (and other cars) are considered to be very fine, world-class automobiles for the driving enthusiast. we all know this because this is why we own them, and it's why YOU are reading this message right now. when some of these BBS trolls (and they're usually out for self-glorification, and they almost always have only a few posts in their profile) post these nasty comments, they make us all look bad. when i go to a Porsche Club event, i am not only attending an event, but i'm being a representative of a person that owns a Porsche. many people in the outside world don't know the difference between a 356 and a 996... all they know is that it said "Porsche" on the back. they don't know, and they don't care. what they DO know is that the person driving that car acted a certain way when they came across them. it's THAT image that stays with us whether or not we like it. if they associate a person in a 928 with "that nasty guy that thinks the world owes him something" then they will draw that association with people in 944s, 914s, 911s, etc.

what i'm getting at is that all of our comments on here are archived for all the world to see. every joke, every helpful statement, every insult. they're all there. you can find them on google, or altavista, or any other search engine. i know that if i was Wayne, i would not want people associating my web site with a bunch of nasty snobs that constantly bad-mouth each other. these guys are running a business here, and the least some people could do is show a little respect. they are paying for this server space... NOT US.

we all know who these guys are, and there's no need to call names, or point fingers. but if you look at the way some people trash-mouth other people's choices in cars, music, friends, geographic location, or income level... it just makes me sick.

and NO, i'm not talking about the guys that joke around on the 944 bbs... i think we all know who we're thinking of. all i know is that they're making all Porsche owners look bad when someone puts in a search for "porsche 9xx" and "looking to buy". when someone asks where they should buy Porsche parts... the FIRST place i recommend is Pelican Parts because the place is run by true Porsche enthusiasts that love the cars. honestly, i really do. i have told people to stay away from certain businesses, and certain people, after i got bad products, or bad service from them. word of mouth is some of the most powerful advertising. if you're reading this you're probably not one of those people... but you know who they are. what some people are saying with their "mouths" might not only be scaring away customers, but giving this place a bad name, the PCA a bad name, and Porsche owners in general a negative image. take a second to use the "search" feature and dig through the archives. you will see what i mean. some people need to show a little respect for the ones footing the bill for this site.

think about it.

obin

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The first Porsches weren't made in Germany... and they were mostly VW parts.

[DennisR_944]

Hear, hear. I agree. I may be new here, but I've been around the boards for years.Image does count for something. It can make or break a board or a business. Thanks Wayne and you others that have provided these forums.

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Dennis Russell
Indianapolis, IN USA
1987 944 n/a

[Drago]

Bravo Obin. Right there with ya.



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Marc
'86 944 NA

[Obin Robinson]

i'm glad to see that someone agrees . what i'm sort of saying is that if you went by a business and you saw a bunch of Nazi flags, David Duke political pamphlets, and hooded white robes on the walls and tables... you would sure NOT tell all your jewish, gay, and immigrant friends to shop there.

i think it's in very poor taste when a person bad-mouths another group of people just because of the car they drive. people need a dose of reality: a $20,000 968 might seem nice to us, but it's still a used car that is $5000 less than a new WRX. a $30,000 911 seems nice, but it's just a waste of money to the guy that spent $35,000 on a new Honda S-2000. some guys think that they're very "elite" and "cool" because they drive these cars... but it's just looking rediculous to the outsiders.

i've heard people call this BBS the "club Si" of Porsches. i tell everyone that it's true that a few bad apples can spoil the bunch, but don't judge all Porsche owners because of the words of a few guys with old cars that think the world should bow to their feet and their "classic" car.

sorry if this seems like a rant, but what provoked me was hearing what other BBSs had to say about this place. i felt very bad for the owners of Pelican Parts because i for one think they have done a trememdous service to ALL Porsche owners and future Porsche owners. this BBS is a great resource... and it is a shame what some people turn it in to. the people that work at Pelican Parts own just about every kind of Porsche, so don't think that you're just bad mouthing some anonymous person across the web... you're making the whole place look bad if you talk nasty about other Porsche owners. the PCA wasn't built for snobs, and this BBS wasn't designed to put other people down.

again, no i'm not talking about the "peanut gallery" 924/944 jokers.

obin

Obin, your point is relevant to all, including the "peanuts".

[Obin Robinson]

Originally posted by el Diablo:
Obin, your point is relevant to all, including the "peanuts".

agreed, it applies to us too, but what i don't see is our crowd putting down owners of other porsches every time someone mentions that car. in other words, if someone says "yeah, my buddy wants to get a 911" we don't say "what is he, a queer, or is he a pimp, or a drug dealer?"

those kind of comments i find to be in poor taste, no matter who says them. we rag on each others cars as a joke, but we don't cross the line like many others (who shall remain unnamed) do.

obin

[epbrown]

I disagree with a lot of this. As someone pointed out, most of your commentary is relevant to all the boards if you want to generalize. You say that some people are okay while others cross the line, but the fact is there is no line - you're actually discussing your own tolerance level for negative comments or your own prejudice for whats considered good-natured joking and what's mean. This entire monologue is from your subjective viewpoint. It could be valid as far as where you're coming from, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't automatically mean that those people you're carefully not-naming are all wearing black hats or carrying pitchforks. It just means that you don't like some of them (or more accurately, some of the things they say). More than a few people feel that way about you, from what I've read - though you seem nice enough from my perspective. You just have a tendency, from what I've seen, to throw a brick at someone that's hit you with a feather :-) Move you to Chicago and you'd fit right in!

Emanuel

[This message has been edited by epbrown (edited 08-16-2001).]

[AMCPorsche924Powerhaus!]

i think the people who make somethign out of it are the ones that are getting hurt....turn the power button of your computer, and meet with people at a grocery store or something if u can't take the internet.

[Saffs]

Obin,
Yeah, I've certainly seen elements of what you describe and I've written before when I thought things were getting out of hand on threads saying, like, anyone can see this, it's the WWW. But, I'm sure Wayne is quite tuned in to similar things and will - I guess when he can/has time - delete posts or close them if he feels they are heading into a certain territory.
I think some of this stuff comes from what I think of as "Forum Rage". Like road rage, people make comments they would never make face to face, but do it from behind the monitor (or steering wheel!)in front of potentially many people. People just need to think first about what to say or not and how it looks to others. Thankfully, it's mostly a pleasant place and better recently, I think?

Emanuel, it's interesting of you to point out WHO'S idea of what is appropriate should we go by - Society's big problem. It's totally up to Wayne, I guess. He's our Religion, Government, Judicial System, etc.
Does he know how much power he has....!!
Anthony

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'75 911S Targa
'81 BMW Alpina C1 2.3

[Obin Robinson]

guys,

what i'm getting at is that i know it's the WWW, but it's a bit rude to post negative things about other car owners on a board that is basically the property of a company that is trying to sell car parts to al Porsche owners.

want some examples? just put in the search "928, 944, 924, or owner" in the 911 board. with the nasty attitudes that some of these guys have... it boggles my mind why they still wonder why people don't wave to them when they drive by. when was the last time that you read a car comparison post that stayed on-topic without a bunch of trolls (with cars that are worth less than a new Acura) coming in and putting down someone else? there's a lot of other BBSs out there that seem to be nothing but people making fun of each other... that's fine. it's all in the name of good-hearted fun. the Pelican Parts BBS is a reflection of not only the company, but the people that shop here. the least that people could do is keep it clean and friendly.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/010459.html

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/011574.html

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/002407.html

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/006160.html

look for certain people that have a "trend" of doing nothing on the BBS but putting down other people and their cars. i dug up those posts by putting in certain strings that someone would use if they were looking to buy a car.

the problem is that many newcomers will jump into a forum like the 911 forum because that is the car they associate with "Porsche" even though it may or may not be the car they end up getting. if i went there and asked for advice 4 years ago... i think i would have ended up buying a Lancia, or a BMW, after seeing the trashy superiority talk. no wonder nobody waves to them. they think they're all a-holes.

it's fine if it's in some way-off corner of the web, but it's NOT. it's on a company web site. say what you want on a private, or club, site. that is NOT what this place is though. these people think that they're just poking fun at someone, but they're NOT. they are making a lot of people look bad, and i think that is just a bit rude.

obin

[Obin Robinson]

Originally posted by AMCPorsche924Powerhaus!:
i think the people who make somethign out of it are the ones that are getting hurt....turn the power button of your computer, and meet with people at a grocery store or something if u can't take the internet.

i could care less if it was a club site, but it's NOT. again, wht i'm getting at is that these comments are on a commercial web site that receives a lot of traffic from the outside world. i browsed Pelican Parts before i even got a Porsche. based upon the comments that some people make, i'd not be surprised if everyone out there thinks that 911 drivers are conceited, and that's why nobody waves to them.

i'm also on www.streetracing.org. that site is fine for people making fun of others because it's not being footed by a company out to make money. the Pelican Parts BBS is. i would hate to think that the disparaging comments made by some nasty Porsche owners are not helping Pelican to get a nice "community" image. that's my main point. you can call 911 owners "homosexuals", and call 914 owners "white trash" all day long on a stupid little BBS in the corner of the web. just don't say that here, because it's rude and it doesn't help a business. i see stuff like that on the 911 board and the worst part is that it isn't getting censored.

another two threads to look at:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/008328.html

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/006024.html

anyone remember that little thing that the PCA president wrote about the Boxster and 996 owners not feeling welcome? look no further than the above posts for evidence. truthfully, what i see is just jealousy. it doesn't look like that to outsiders though. that's why this place is called the "clubSi" of Porsches.

check out the forums over there and take a look. put in the search word for "911"

http://www.clubsi.com/home.shtml

i just feel bad for the people that foot the bill for this BBS. i think it's rude.

obin

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

This board reflects reality. Not all Porsche owners share the same reasons for having one. Everyone sees his Porsche an other way.

And notz all people are friendly, intelligent and helpfull. Thats an idealistic dream and owning a Porsche has nothing to do with personality. Maybe the type off the car......

Look around on other boards and you will find similarytis all over, ok the Ferrari or other exotic boards seem to have selctet more wisefull people but you also will find the people divided in different clases.


I also don´t think that people can not split the Board from the Pelican company.( Just would like to qoute Schiller´s Wallenstein here ) At least not "intelligent" people.

Also most will "read" the massages and make up there mind. The bad thing is that some people will never post on this board fearing to run into some people who have a big board in there eye but pointing on the splitters in there neighbours eyes ( Bible ).

But you can´t stop people making fools out of themself.

Grüsse

[Z-man]

Obin,
You make some interesting points here. It is unfortunate that there are such negative attitudes present here on this board. In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

As an avid autocrosser, I have enjoyed friendly competition with other Porsches. (My PCA region has about 8 to 10 autox's a year!) NEVER have I felt that the 'other model' Porsche owners at these events were snobbish or looked down on me, even when I only had my MR2! They all were willing to help a newbie like me. There's nothing wrong with 'friendly competition,' but when it becomes cut-throat, there's a problem.

If you've truly got the Porsche bug, then it doesn't matter what model is being talked about: you pulse will still quicken, your adrenaline start pumping when a Porsche model is mentioned! I own a 944S2, but I know significanly more detail about the 911's and 914's! (Gotta read more books on the 944's!)

So why can't the same 'friendly competition' attitude be evident here?
-Zoltan.

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My toy: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Z-man

[Obin Robinson]

Z-man. good thing that somebody understands, thanks! i don't see the level of snobbery in real life that i see on this BBS> i have only met ONE porsche owner in my life that was so repulsive that i wanted to punch her in the face. not bad considering that i've met hundreds of Porsche owners and they all struck me as very nice. from the guy with the rusty 911 to the guy with the $200,000 GT3RS.

also, offhand, i remembe a long time ago someone with the nickname of "z-man" had a 280Z with a Corvette engine in it. was that you?

obin

[Z-man]

Obin,
Nope, that's not me from the 280Z & Vette boards. However, I'm Z-man on the MR2 boards (board.mr2pages.com)!

Peace,
-Z.

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My toy: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Z-man

[wckrause]

Wasn't this posted by you Obin?

"i'd buy a 944 turbo or 928 over a 911 any day of the year. i think they are great cars, but you're right... then tend to attract a certain kind of snooty owner that thinks that people should treat them differently because they own a certain car."

Isn't this the kind of posting that you are all in a huff about? Why is it OK for you to make generalizations about what a person is like based on their choice of car, but for the rest of us, we get compared to David Duke?

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Bill Krause
'79 911SC Euro
MY PELICAN GALLERY

[Z-man]

Ok people:
I think there's been enough bickering and picking for now: both here and in the 911 and 944 boards. This will not accomplish anything further. Let's end it now.

There is no more need to bring up "who said what" and "who did what" Apologies have been said, people have made peace. Let's leave it at that.

So everyone, play nice.
-Zoltan.

Disclaimer: This note is for all parties, not any particular person.

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My toy: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Z-man

[Matt Smith]

You amaze me sometimes Obin. Give it a rest.

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'72 911 TE

[Jack Olsen]

I think you have some very valid points, Obin.

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Jack Olsen
My Rennlist page • My Pelican Gallery page • My Porsche Owners Gallery page

[drew1]

This is the place for off topic rantings. Unless Wayne wants to boot us out for what we say in their place, we ought to be able to express our opinion. I may not aree with Obin on everything but but I'm not jumping on him because he thinks or says it.

I, myself feel bad because I just about called a boy a liar on 944 board, when I was wrong.

We will never be better if our faults aren't pointed out.

Let's pray for our troops, who are goingf after the terrorists for us. Remember, if you beat up somebody just because they are for the middle east, your're adding a count to the WTC for Bin Laden.

drew1