if you don't mind a used amp (the online tube community is not unlike pelican) you could go w/ a Conrad Jonhnson CAV 50. Commonly known as a C-J, they have been the gold std. of the market. At $2500 it wasn't cheap, but you could easily find amps for double and triple that. Since by now it's an older model, I'm sure there are some floating around at $1000.

Pic of beautiful-sounding DIY OTL power amp built by Bernt Jansson. Many neat details. Tubes are PL509's and heat is wired in series and powered directly from mains. Separate & stabilized anode voltage.

You would need cubic dollars to actually buy someting like this. I think only Graaf does big OTL's nowadays. One nice day I'll try to pull it off on my own.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1137802363.jpg

VaSteve:

Yes, definitely you sit in one place and don't move on these systems. You need to be in the "sweet spot" to get the full effect of good 2 channel audio.

The sweet spot is the exact center point between the left and right speakers at least 5 to 10 feet away (can be much more in larger rooms) from the front line of the two speakers.

Getting into the sweet spot allows the speakers to "image" well. This gives you a very nice, wide sound stage. You'll notice instruments and/or vocals will pop out in the center of the image and other instruments/voices/etc. will be panned more left or more right. The lead vocals will sit nicely in the middle. High hat will be off to the left, kick drum dead center hitting you nicely, cymbals panned (yes, I'm a drummer - sorry), guitar(s) panned nicely off to the right or left or both, harmony vocals dispersed all over the place, etc. etc. A good set up in a nice room gets W I D E and really fun to listen to.

Definitely try a nice system in a nice room in the sweet spot. If you like good audio, you'll be hooked and I bet you'll be able to sit still for awhile behind a nice LP or decent CD.

Love this 2 channel thread...

Jay
90 964

This is funny! Most of you are probably too young to have ever seen pics of really antique radios, the stuff made in the early 20th century...tubes exposed, finely finished wood cabinet, dials & switches. The similarity is incredible! (edit)...I remember saving up paper route money so I could buy a portable (NO TUBES!) radio for $40...the transistor had just arrived upon the mass market. I suppose all of this is proof that the more things change, the more they remain the same...

Bingo.

I'm soooo sick of these compressed MP3 formats and all this other junk out there today that compromises audio. Yeah, it's all on the computer at your fingertips, but that's just not the point of true (i.e. analog) audio.

This thread is getting me pumped up. I'm listening to vinyl right now in my office as I type... I'm glad you guys get the point too. LP or cassette on 2 speakers.

I've had people listen to my cheesy system (1976 McIntosh MC250 running two Paradigm 7se's (circa 1989) with my '84 Integra 2070 cassette deck) swear they were listening to a really good CD. LP and cassette are so much more warm (if you have a good turntable and an exceptional cassette deck).

Of course I have decent enough CD player, but on a lot of disc, you can really hear the difference between formats. CD looses a ton of warmth on many recordings.

The only problem is the degradation of these formats due to playback or time...

Jay
90 964

All of my old LP vinyl seems to suffer from some degradation of sound quality. Could this be because they were played, over and over, on an automatic $99.95 record changing "stereo" made by G.E.? Or, could it have been the doobie ashes and the beer that got dropped on the vinyl whenever the stack of records was flipped over on the changer? Any expert opinions on how I can restore these LP's to their once (I'm sure, tho I can't really remember) pristine and warm sound?

Wash them, but not in the bath!
A friend uses a super dooper vinyl wash special thingy - must get one.
I played a couple of Beatle ones today, never mind the cracles and pops - clarity and crispness of sound were enough.
Buy whole collections off ebay - I got 255 lps of heavy rock for 250 pounds - all in amazing condition.

I purchased (about 10 years ago) a record cleaning machine (vaccum) from Audio Advisor (Record Doctor) for $169 (now $199), a must for you record show goers.

I have an "Orbatrac", but I really don't see what the big deal is - works, nothing to rave about.

The big secret in great record cleaning is steam (must be used with either Orbatrac or record cleaning machine).

I have a portable travel sized steam cleaner (from the wife) which works wonders. Avoid the lables. My pint sized unit does not get very hot - could never burn you, and you have to really work it to get it to warp the record (flattens out on it's own once on the cleaning machine).

My current method on a newly purchased worn record or one of my oldest roughest samples is to clean in on the Record Doctor cleaning machine. Then steam clean it, put it on the Record Doctor machine and clean again (full fliuids and brush - typical). If this just does not do the trick, I'll pull out the Orbatrac.

Once upon a time; I steamed cleaned first, and went straight to the Orbatrac before going to the Record Cleaning Machine - wow you could really see all the crud then on the Orbatrac pads..

Once cleaned, I don't clean again for at least a year, but will use my Zerostat gun and carbon fiber brush to keep the record clean.

Also important to keep the needle clean, turn down the volume and use the "LAST" stylus cleaner and application brush.

I'm also a big fan of the Cardas degausing record and tube phone sections, somehow they work together to relax the whole playback system.

Some people claim to get good results with CD's using record treatment tools. They used the Zerostat gun on CD's, and play the Cardas record to tune-in or warm up the entire playback chain.

Remember, nothing cleans like STEAM .

If you want a theory to go along with this here is one: Every time you play a record the contact point of the stylus (just for an instant) heats up and melts the vinyl (cools back down in a micro second as well). The only way to get the dirt out is to losen it up with heat or warm water.

There is some evidence that mold is the real problem - even if you cannot see or smell it. Ever hear of "old moldy records"? There are now bio-cleaners designed to eat the mold but not the vinyl. The mold may grow over the dust particles making a big microscopic mess for your stylus to magnify.

OK, guys

For the exerts out there, is there any quality or sound difference between a classic tube amp like Macintosh or any of the more recent but similarly priced tube amps?

Your thoughts?

Dazed and Confused
 

And I thought it was just Jimi Hendrix playing....

I've been a Mac freak since the middle 60s....I have been watching Mac sales on the Bay...and have been comtemplating whether to pursue a Mac tube amp such as the MC 275 or MC2101...or go with one of the big boys live an MC 500 or MC 600 0r MC 1000.

So many variables, experts always default to what ever works in your system to your ears rule of thumb. The old stuff can be pretty good, just like an old Porsche. Best thing to do is find a high-end store near you that allows home auditions. Most hi-end stores take trade-in's or sell used stuff on consignment. For me, I've once dragged in all of my electronic equipment (amp, preamp and CD player) into the store and they let me hook it up to the speakers. Mind you half the sound you hear is reflected sound (room acoustics) but it sold me on my Martin Logans.

Tabs I think the MC 275 (75 watts) can only have be had used for about $5,000, the MC2101 (100 or 150 watts) new for about $10,000. I think I read that there is MC 275 reissue part-2 which means more new machines - but not 100% positive about that, would expect these to be in between ($7,500). Apples and oranges, sometimes you pay for a name - but will keep it's resale and remain servicable..

Check out the prices on the Bay....

I would if I were interested - what are they going for?

Once again let me stress that home audition of equipment is the way to go. However, if you are going to purchase a "classic" McIntosh or Conrad Johnson off e-bay, I suppose you could flip it back on to the market at no loss if it did not make you happy. This is a dark path to go down, can you afford another expensive hobby?

Very true. I know of one of my customer's customers who has identical systems in all 3 of his residences. Stereo only - DCS front end (the big $ one), Lamm amps & Grande Utopia BEs. I arranged the delivery of the GUs. Probably $200K per system . . .

At the other end of the scale, $2K can get a nice music-only system if you choose carefully. Listen & believe your ears & ignor the hype - easier said than done.

Ian