An Honest Lefty: I DON'T SUPPORT our troops

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by Rodeo
Y

How do you feel about that kid, joining today and knowing what we know?

We need to think less about these kids and more about their dying for our and other people's Freedom.

[aways]

Originally posted by Rodeo

How about the kid that is going down to the recruiting station today to volunteer for Iraq? Assume that he or she knows that more than 80% of Iraqis don't want us in their country to "spread democracy," but wants to go there anyway.

How do you feel about that kid, joining today and knowing what we know?

I'd think he was a patriotic American doing his part to pave the way for increased security for the US in the years to come. You may disagree as to whether this will ever happen, but that doesn't mean that the hypothetical recruit in your example has bad motives. Glad to hear that you selectively "support the troops" as long as they support your views.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by aways
Glad to hear that you selectively "support the troops" as long as they support your views.

That's a patently dishonest statement of my post, and of my beliefs.

Although you should be ashamed of yourself, I understand that you are following the example of our president, so you are probably quite proud. This president with his henchman Rove has reduced political debate in this country to who can lie with the straightest face.

Congratulations. You are a great liar.

[aways]

So what the hell did you mean by your statement below?
Don't talk in riddles. Say what the hell you mean.

Originally posted by rodeo
How about the kid that is going down to the recruiting station today to volunteer for Iraq? Assume that he or she knows that more than 80% of Iraqis don't want us in their country to "spread democracy," but wants to go there anyway.

How do you feel about that kid, joining today and knowing what we know?

You obviously wouldn't support this recruit.

[Rodeo]

You obviously are an accomplished liar.

Talk to Rove. There's always a need for more political operatives to do the president's dirty work. You're perfect.

[stuartj]

Originally posted by rrpjr
Yes, of course. This distinguished essay clearly recalls George Orwell.

But what is "it", exactly, and how did Orwell "nail" it? Your credulous reader wants to know.

Orwell wrote many things about war, and even fought in one, but I do not recall him writing a thing about indicting soldiers for their failure of moral independence. No, his beat was the betrayals of power by the powerful through the devices of power. And, incidentally, he was no fan of pacifists.

Well put, and yes probably off the beam on my part. But cant it be argued that the esteem with which the military and military service is held in militaristic society is in fact just such a device?

In trying to find this Orwell quote "people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." I found this article from 1999- quiet interesting.

Stuart

http://www.nyu.edu/globalbeat/usdefense/Isenberg120999.html

In the history of the American national security state we have periodically been alarmed about various gaps, i.e. bomber gaps, missile gaps, nuclear warhead gaps, military manpower gaps, etc. Now the newest gap is upon us, and it may be the scariest of them all. I call it the ignoramus gap, but polite society prefers to call it the civil-military gap.

Just the facts

Although the gap has been visible for some years now, a new report came in November from the Triangle Institute for Security Studies' Project on the Gap Between the Military and Civilian Society. Among its findings:

Over the past quarter-century, elite military officers have largely abandoned political neutrality and have become partisan Republicans (64%).

The partisan gap is matched by an ideological divide. The elite military are far more likely to identify themselves as conservative than are either mass or elite civilians and are many times less likely to identify themselves as liberal than either the mass or elite public.

Elite military officers express great pessimism about the moral health of civilian society and strongly believe that the military could help society become moral and that civilian society would be better off if it adopted more of the military's values and behaviors. Elite civilians share pessimism about civilian society but strongly disagree that the military has a role in military reform. Each group harbors strong negative stereotypes about the other beneath a surface expression of respect and confidence. (more)

[Nathans_Dad]

As a military officer (although I don't think I qualify as elite, lol) I would say that you are correct in that the majority of the military are conservative and vote Republican. I won't pretend to know all of the whys of that, but I will say that the military tends to attract people who are more conservative by nature. Let's face it, you can make a whole lot more money in the civilian sector than you can in the military one. So you have to have a reason for giving up that wealth. I would say that for the officers I know it is a desire to serve their country and uphold the traditional military values (which are by and large conservative).

[porschezealot]

I don't see what's so contradictory about wanting your boys to make it through safely, but hating the war for Halliburton profit margins.