We eat meat, but we have a preponderance of vegetables. I prefer sushi. My daughter is a non red meat vegetarian-she will still eat chicken. She just doesn't like the taste of beef or how it slows your body down.

Pure vegenism I cannot fathom. I like my sushi.

Then why have our appendixes gone dormant? Why don't we have two stomachs or a multitude of flat, grinder teeth?

Re: Need arguments against vegetarianism
 

Everyone seems to answering the question about "being a vegetarian", and that's what Markus asked for, but it seems to me that this is at least equally important.

Since he's the father of his daughter, and very much a part of her life, it would seem that at least a discussion on this topic should have been held, not just an ultimate, final decission, based upon only mom's desires.

Markus, try approaching it from this angle with mom. Whatever the final outcome, at least your input will have been taken into consideration and the decission is one you BOTH agree on.

just my own $.02.

Randy

Well, for the most part they are, but we also have teeth towrds the front that allow for seed/nut opening as well as fruit eating. We really are not designed for eating meat at all. If we were, our teeth would be like a cat teeth. If we were designed to eat anything, we would have more of a set-up like a raccoon or a oppossum or even a bear.

Markus - as for diary products? You got to be kidding right? Milk and milk fat are so bad for anyone save a baby - think about the ultimate function? It is designed to increase body weight in a neo-nate as fast as possable. Don't get we wrong, I love cheese and milk with Oreos like the next guy - but it is not the best to put in your body. I will say that breast milk is the best stuff for a baby (and Dad!). But when was the last time you saw a grown bull sucking on a teet? How about a grown Lion getting a drink from momma? An animal will drink it if it is available, then again they will also eat the ***** of another animal if it has any undigested protein in it as well.

What fantastic response rate ! And high quality too !

Some very good arguments.

Vash, I have interrogated her several times regarding her own motives. Its not to do with health. Not really feeling sorry for animals neither. Rather something down the line of - "eating dead animals - jaackk!!"

And Mike, I am embarrassed to admit that I think you have a strong point. Lot of, at least anecdotal, evidence pointing to a health effect cutting out animal meat. You won´t catch me admitting it to her however...;)

Umm.. that was an arguement against...

ok, now we are getting warmer. does mommy wear animal products? shoes, jackets, etc? i bet she looks hot in all that cotton. still, eating dead animals, is alot better than eating live animals. take her to the phillipines and order the "jumping" salad...

i agree and disagree with lube. moderation is key. ever over eat with beets? from what i understand, the human body has a hard time breaking down protein from plants? better to let the cow do it first, and then eat a lean steak. a small, lean steak.

One more thing. I have tried the following argument:

Let her eat a "normal" diet until she is old enough to form her on decision. Uhh, no cigar of course..

Edit: I did try that argument vash, but since she really does not care about the animals - just being disgusted eating them - it did not work neither.

Rick - if we kept to our original design, our viscera (guts) would look different than they do today as would our teeth. Humans bodies do adapt accordingly. We see that with pigments and even immune responces as well as size. If you stuck a bunch of people in a pitch dark cave for 10,000 years chances are they would not have a need for eyes. They would be designed out due to conditions. The body doen't keep things if they are not needed according to the enviroment that they are living in. Of course it takes many many generations for even the slightest change.

vegetarian is an old indian word that translated means "Bad hunter".

I could get into that.

Re: Need arguments against vegetarianism
 

First of all, this is extremely serious. I regard your wife as preparing to endanger your child.

Ged, you're an MD, you of all people should know that vegetarians, if they're vegans certainly, but nealy all of them, cannot be getting a healthy diet without red meat being a part of that diet. Taking vitamin supplements in pill form, or almost any other form, to cheat on eating vegetables alone doesn't cut it either. There are specific B vitimins and micronutrients found nowhere else than in red meat.

It's not just coincidence that the societies in Great Britain never amounted to much until they began herding and eating sufficient red meat from domesticated cattle, and to a lesser extent, sheep. There isn't a successful people on the planet that was born out of a vegetariaqn lifestyle, and any society that became largely vegetarian would soon wither.

This, from an RN, is the truth. I can provide some references if your wife insists on a literature search.

Except for a few exceptions these are not people that I'm going to pattern my life after. Hmm, Alicia Silverstone, Ally Sheedy, Billy Idol, yep, they're definitely smarter than me and people to pattern my life after.

Why do you care?

FWIW humans are omnivores and can subsist entirely on either plant or animal material or both. I am vegetarian (although I still have eggs and dairy products occasionally) and have been for almost 20 years. Don't miss that crap one bit. I'm in good health, reasonably strong, have run four marathons (training for a fifth), etc. In the entire time I've been veg, I think I've been ill maybe four or five times - usually colds. Coincidence? Possibly. But I don't see too many fat lardass vegetarians going in for their third bypass surgery due to arteriosclerosis, if you get my drift.

Way I look at it is it's a personal choice like smoking, drinking or doing drugs. You've nobody to hurt by your actions but yourself and if I ever had kids that's the way I'd present it to them. Once they're 18 they can do what they want. Until then, they do what I tell them and that goes for their smoking (I wouldn't allow it), drinking (ditto, save for maybe an occasional taste of wine with dinner), drugs (wouldn't allow it) and dietary choices (veg. only. Maybe when they got older I'd say fine if they want otherwise they can get it/pay for it/prepare it themselves).

Vash - wearing and eating are not the same - I won't eat cotton but I wear it.

Actually, as I understand it live or raw meat is better for you than the cooked stuff provided it doesn't contain any parisites. I think we cooked food years ago to preserve it plus cooked food is closer to the dead stuff than raw. Its all about taste.

Also - one reason, albeit rather seemingly ridiculous, that humans have a tough time digesting veggie protiens and carbs has a little bit to do with how we eat. In order to get the most out of fruit and veggies as well as anything, it is important to take full advantage of saliva - we do not chew our food near as long as we should. Saliva helps break carbs and maybe even proteins down but we dont keep it in our mouths long enough. This is most likely due to the habits we developed way back when we started eating dead stuff - chew it as fast as possable and swallow.

BTW - my son is a vegan by choice. Except for a recent bought with hives due to an angry fungus or plant, he is of perfect health mand rarely if ever gets sick. My daughter is an ham eating omnivore and battles a cold ever month.

Just be glad your wife has a strong opinion. Let her win this one and maybe she will allow you to do some of that dirty sex to her! Quid pro quo!!!

No, that's not true. Those animals can't use tools to slay their prey, they must use teeth designed to hold the prey until it expires. The Gorilla is mostly a vegetarian, yet it has larger canine teeth, for a purpose. They don't use tools for self defense, we do.

Quote:

Markus - as for diary products? You got to be kidding right? Milk and milk fat are so bad for anyone save a baby - think about the ultimate function? It is designed to increase body weight in a neo-nate as fast as possable. Don't get we wrong, I love cheese and milk with Oreos like the next guy - but it is not the best to put in your body. I will say that breast milk is the best stuff for a baby (and Dad!). But when was the last time you saw a grown bull sucking on a teet? How about a grown Lion getting a drink from momma? An animal will drink it if it is available, then again they will also eat the ***** of another animal if it has any undigested protein in it as well.

Maqn is most certainly supposed to eat meat, leaner meat than a lot of what we eat today, but red meat is human food.

Markus, why don't you go home tonight and inform her that YOU have decided that the family is now (insert any offensive religion here) ,then tell her to put on the outfit and shutup..oh and she now walks behind you.. Your little one will not suffer if she gets a balanced diet. Down the line if she want to go vegi..it will be her choice.
Rika

huh? sorry lubie, you lost me. killing an animal, to eat or wear is sorta the same thing. Especially from the critters perspective.

and porchphile, i totally agree with you. if you asked me, which i would rather give up, meat or veggies, the meat would be left on the plate. i dont know if i have the will power. but you also addressed LIVI's que. i believe in this instance, it will not be the kid's freewill, but more the mom's. maybe i will give it a two week try. i do have a love affair with tofu.

Vegetarianism is a choice. It can be motivated by sprituality, health or compassion. Because it is a choice, it is wrong for an adult to compel a child to be vegan. Better to say "Mommy chooses to not eat meat, daddy eats meat. You can decide what's right for you."

Why burden kids with our whimsical commitments before they reach the age of reason?

Re: Re: Need arguments against vegetarianism
 

Pat - I respectfully disagree with your opinion and the opinion of the medical community that would ever consider that flesh was a required staple of good health. It just simply is not the case. Not only did I investigate veganism but practiced it for a few years and I never took any B supplements. I had the energy and stamina of a cross country runner. My son (as well as a few others I know well) do not eat meat of any kind and suffer no ill effects.

Linus Pauling used to take huge amounts of Vitamin C thinking it would act as a super source of anti-oxidant and help keep him and his kids alive longer and free of illness. It was only recently that the Pauling Inst found that anything beyond 80mg was wasted and even then it was more like 50mg was the sweet spot. Mega doses of C do nothing for you but give you gas and maybe the runs! Linus Pauling was wrong - a guy that had more science chops than all of us put together.

Why was he wrong? His sensibilities were skewed due to a quest for a fountain of youth or a magic elixir - just sit back and apply some un-common sense. Does it really make sense to eat meat? Really? You are not designed for it?

As for society - perhaps the increased in flesh eating had a direct relationship to aggression. Aggression will bring conquest and conquest will bring social change - combine that with a lack of affection towards your young and an increase in blood sport and you have a recipe for a pretty dominant state.

I would like to know your definition of success? Is it conquest or is it piece.