Had to give a 0 to a few students - Am I a prick or what? - Page 3

ianc · 02-14-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

What is good for the student? To let them get by or adhere to the school policy and an agreed policy that each signed on for.

What is good for the student is that they learn something, and are able to take away something positive from the class and apply it to their career.

These guys were more than conscientious and had finished their work ahead of time. These are your grade A students; the best of the bunch! To punish them for this is just misguided IMO. Maybe the chair is strict, but there's a time to stop worrying about that and go to bat for the good ones. Hang the one that didn't even try though...

ianc

Nader · 02-14-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
I've had two instances where I almost failed students. (I teach Unix, Unix Admin and Security classes at Sac State's extension program)

The first was a guy who missed a lot of classes and a lot of lab work. He shows up on the day of the final - late - with his hat in his hand and a sad story. I told him if he could pass the final, I'd pass him. Somehow he did.

Had another girl in a similar situation, and she came up to me after class one day; she tells me she really needs to pass the class, and she'd do anything for a passing grade:
"Anything?" I asked.
She says "Yes, anything!"
I asked again "No, I mean any-thing?"
She smiles and says "Yes, ANYTHING!"
"What are you doing tonight?"
"No plans"
"Are you going to be alone?"
"Yes - my roomate is out of town"
"Well, then I suggest you go home and study your ass off."

C'mon, that's from an early seventies Clint Eastwood movie called "The Eiger Sanction."

jim72911t · 02-14-2006, 09:42 PM

When I first read this thread, I was going to jump on the "prick" bandwagon. Now that you have explained the situation a bit better, and disclosed more of your reasoning, including the guidelines set by the Sr. Prof, I think you did what you had to do. If your hands are truly tied, then the zero's are justified. If there is a little wiggle room, I'd suggest maybe giving half credit for the work if you truly knew it was already done.

On a side note, I don't buy the "left it in the dorm room" excuse. Provided they had done the work and were ready to turn it in last week, the students would have had to pull the work from their book bags/briefcases when they got back to the dorm, which doesn't make sense. Why not just leave it in the book bag until the following week? Seems like that would be easier.

Finally, I do remember my Tech Writing class.

Thought it was the most boring, mundane, dumbed down writing I had ever done. (Coming from an English/journalism background, mind you.)

A few years later, I started writing instruction manuals for both my products and for the stuff I was manufacturing at my "real" job.

Not as easy as I thought, it turned out.

Jim

scottmandue · 02-15-2006, 08:14 AM

No... you are not a prick... your a suuuuuuuuuuuper prick.

Just kidding, I'm on the fence... the guys were dumba$$'s for forgeting the paper on the day it was due however if it was an honest mistake maybe you should have gave them some credit.

However, like you said... in the real world there are deadlines.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Nader
C'mon, that's from an early seventies Clint Eastwood movie called "The Eiger Sanction."

I didn't know it was a movie; I'd read the book.

rammstein · 02-15-2006, 09:46 AM

They can hand it in, and you'll grade the papers upon proof that both of them complete 2 hours community service. One act of kindness deserves another. As a student not long ago, I would find that to be a PITA, but fair too.

TerryBPP · 02-15-2006, 10:10 AM

I would have told them to go and get it right then. If they returned in an hour you know they did the assignment and you should give them full credit or at least partial. If they argue and or turn the paper in the next day the you know they never did the assignment and deserve the 0%.

Use it as a test of there honesty. Chances are if they were always late then they hadn't completed it and were trying to buy some time.

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
The sylibus was on the site the students use - I pointed out certain errors and made sure evryone understood that the sylibus did contain some mistakes - all agreed. rom what I could tell, all the other students had their work as well the day the sylibus said it was due. All were given instructions to hang on to it and turn it in the following week.

In life and in jobs - things change and one must adapt.

Sorry, but I am a stickler for written policy. Next time if you find an error in the sylibus maybe a new written corrected sylibus should be handed out.

tabs · 02-15-2006, 11:27 AM

Hey LUBBY...They had it done and tried to turn it in EARLY and YOU said NO....and your talking about business reality??? LOL GIVE ME A BREAK....I mighta dinged them a coupla points for forgetting or whatever U call it...but thats it Daddy..

If I were the Students I'd Drop your Class....

M.D. Holloway · 02-15-2006, 01:16 PM

Well, maybe if these rascles do come in on Friday I will cut them some slack...

ZOA NOM · ZOA NOM's Garage

Good for you! You'll feel better for it.

M.D. Holloway · 02-15-2006, 01:48 PM

Another part I did not mention (because I didn't think it relevent...)

And just so you ALL KNOW the reason why - the assignments to be handed in were for analysis in a group environment. Each team member was supposed to get a 10K, a product manual, a compnay brochure and a website. The other part of the assigment to be done in class with the items they were supposed to have was then to be analysized according to a bunch of criteria and reccomendations to be made in report and presentation form.

The fact that they did not have their items had a direct impact on their teams ability to accurately analyze all the items the team was responsible for.

The students knew this going in.

PBS911: As for the written sylibus instructions - like life, the written word is not also correct. The sylibus doesn't grade the students the prof does and if the prof calls an audible from the line of srimmage then the play has to be run according for the call not the book.

M.D. Holloway · 02-15-2006, 01:50 PM

and I best get some action Thursday or Daddy ain't gonna be feel'n very charitable!

kqw · 02-15-2006, 01:56 PM

My opinion is "did they do the work or not" If the answer is "yes" then that should be considered.

Did they hand it in on time? Well, sorta they did...early attempt. This should also be taken into consideration.

Did they hand it when when they were supposed to? Well, no they didn't. This should also be taken into consideration BUT, not the only thing you consider......

M.D. Holloway · 02-15-2006, 02:06 PM

The thing you have to understand is that the assignment was to bring in certain items that would be used by each team for analysis purposes. Failure to do so resulted in problems for their teams. The "work" here was to actually obtain the items and bring them in for more "work" which was a critical analysis of said items.

At some point they will have to write product manuals, company brochures, web pages and even a mocked up intro to a annual report. In order for them to do that they have to be able to understand what makes a good one and what makes a poor one then apply various tools to build a good one. Eash assignment builds on itself. This was the first of a bunch and they dropped the ball. It not only affected their grade but the critical analysis for the rest of their team.

kqw · 02-15-2006, 02:23 PM

Ok, then: add another category of consideration....see addition

Quote:

Originally posted by kqw
My opinion is "did they do the work or not" If the answer is "yes" then that should be considered.

Did they hand it in on time? Well, sorta they did...early attempt. This should also be taken into consideration.

Did they hand it when when they were supposed to? Well, no they didn't. This should also be taken into consideration

By them not handing in the work when it was supposed to be affect the team? Yes...Were the other team members happy with them for not being prepared? I think not... take this into consideration. If those guys are half way intelligent, peer presure is a hell of a thing.

Also, what is the objective of the class? Teach them teamwork?, teach them to hand in assignments on time? or teach them the material of the subject.....

Yea, you can teach them a lesson and fail them but what is the lesson that you taught them by doing this?

scottmandue · 02-15-2006, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Another part I did not mention (because I didn't think it relevent...)

And just so you ALL KNOW the reason why - the assignments to be handed in were for analysis in a group environment. Each team member was supposed to get a 10K, a product manual, a compnay brochure and a website. The other part of the assigment to be done in class with the items they were supposed to have was then to be analysized according to a bunch of criteria and reccomendations to be made in report and presentation form.

The fact that they did not have their items had a direct impact on their teams ability to accurately analyze all the items the team was responsible for.

The students knew this going in.

PBS911: As for the written sylibus instructions - like life, the written word is not also correct. The sylibus doesn't grade the students the prof does and if the prof calls an audible from the line of srimmage then the play has to be run according for the call not the book.

I'm giving you a C- on spelling

M.D. Holloway · 02-15-2006, 08:50 PM

kqw - 'Also, what is the objective of the class? Teach them teamwork?, teach them to hand in assignments on time? or teach them the material of the subject.....'

yes

scottmandue - a C- is too kind!

kqw · 02-15-2006, 09:24 PM

Hey Mike, I'm sure your decision will be the right one regardless...

I just remember (Wayne mentions it) when I was in college, there were several Professors (as you are) that really looked at all the circumstances when deciding to fail or pass students.

Giving a break every now and then does not necessarily HURT a deserving student..as long as they know they got a break and appreciate it. Who knows, that lesson may end up being the best thing you teach them all semester.....

Maybe one day when they are at a cross roads, they'll give someone a break and let them continue on their road.

kqw · 02-15-2006, 09:35 PM

Anyone that has moved through life and doesn't think that they have caught a break every now and then are probably in jail, dead or are in denial.

Of course, when growing up, catching that break did not correspond when I thought I should get a break...(My Father was a career Military officer)..ha, ha...ha