Abu Ghraib- US Govt in court to prevent US publication of more images

[stuartj]

Damning new photographs and videos purporting to show the abuse and even murder of Iraqi prisoners at the infamous Abu Ghraib jail have been broadcast on Australian television and picked up by Arab channels.

The images are likely to trigger outrage because they show more graphically than before the scenes of humiliation which took place at Abu Ghraib in late 2003.

The new pictures, broadcast at a time when anti-Western feeling is running high among Muslims across the world over the publication of the cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohamed, may finally torpedo the reputation of the US occupation in the eyes of Iraqis. The pictures were among dozens at the centre of a legal battle in the US to block their publication. They are among more than 100 stills and four videos taken at the Baghdad prison which the US administration is fighting to keep secret in a court case with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

The pictures show guards smiling as they stand beside blood-soaked and hooded prisoners, some of whom are tied to an unidentified apparatus. The release of further pictures of torture will make it more difficult for the US to claim that what happened in Abu Ghraib in 2003 and 2004 was isolated and the work of low-level guards acting on their own initiative. Mr Singh said the images were evidence of "systematic and widespread abuse" of prisoners by US soldiers.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article345692.ece

[fastpat]

Well, you know, Rush Limbaugh says the events at Abu Graib were nothing more than a fraternity hazing, nothing to get our collective panties in a wad over.

What's that you say, over two dozen prisoners died while in US custody? Prisoners were raped, both men on men and men on women? Waterboarding and withholding of food and water were used?

This can't be true, you must have the Bush Administration confused with Saddam Hussein's administration, surely.

Besides, Attorney General Gonzales says it's OK anyway, so there.

[Mulhollanddose]

Amrit Singh?...We are to believe the ACLU and a guy I can only find referenced on neo-communist websites?...If he is right, so what?...Hellavua lot better than the treatment they would afford us. Geneva does not apply.

[stuartj]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Amrit Singh?...We are to believe the ACLU and a guy I can only find referenced on neo-communist websites?...If he is right, so what?...Hellavua lot better than the treatment they would afford us. Geneva does not apply.

The usual gamut, Mul. Amrit Singh is irrelevent and you dont have to beleive him. The ACLU is irrelevent, except that they are taking the action- on the behalf of US citizens- so that the US govt doesnt decide what you see published.

Whats relevent is that the US military is behaving like the Gestapo. And your defence is that "its better than what they would afford us".

I would imagine that all Americans of good conscience would be deeply ashamed of this behaviour, and of you. It absolutely flies on the face of everything the USA represents.

Or once did, anyway.

[Mulhollanddose]

This isn't about our mistreatment of prisoners, this is about your and the ACLU's hate for Bush and the desire for our war effort to fail...These detainees are murderers and terrorists...If you lefties and the ACLU had their way the REAL torture chambers would be open, rape rooms bloody, children imprisoned, mass graves filled and worse yet Saddam Hussein would be arming or funding terrorists who want you dead...War is ugly, but necessary for peace.

[stuartj]

We are torturing because if we werent Saddam would be.

We are torturing to prevent torture.

War = Peace

Civil Liberties are the enemy.

Saddam Hussein is a terrorist.

Any critism of torture is simply a device to attack Mr Bush.

You are straight from the pages of 1984, Mul.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by stuartj
War = Peace

Yep, not only is it factual but best and most humanely practiced by the U.S.A.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

What it boils down to is this...

Denial of the fact that our government does things that we think only other countries do.

[JavaBrewer]

If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen, ...and Phoenix.

[Mulhollanddose]

99% of the time these scum are treated like prison royalty...That this is even an issue is because those against us, even within our own country, want to damage Bush and undermine the war.

The culprits at Abu Ghraib were facing justice even without the sensationalist press seizing upon it and making the mole hill into a mountain.

[stuartj]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
99% of the time these scum are treated like prison royalty...

You know this in the divine manner that you know so many things, Mul? LOL

[djmcmath]

The issue here isn't even whether Bad Things happened at Abu Ghraib. Let's acknowledge for a moment that some really awful stuff happened there 3 years ago. Let's acknowledge that the people responsible should be judged in an appropriate court of law, and not on the PPOT.

Now let's look at the world picture and see if maybe now is not the best time to try and engrage the Arab world in general and the fanatic Muslims specifically. I mean, right now, we have imams all over the Arab world stirring their followers into a frenzy because a cartoonist on the other side of the continent scribbled some stuff they disagree with.* People are getting killed in riots in Pakistan -- still -- the furor won't die down! Now we've got journalists in this country digging up the bones of Abu Ghraib from 3 years ago ... what, are they trying to start a war? Sure, free speech an' all, but don't they have some sense of timing?

Dan



*The latest conspiracy theory notes that the cartoons actually shown in Arab countries are clearly not all from the Danish cartoonist. For example, a caricature of Muhammed being f----ed by a dog has some theorists suggesting that the whole show is an effort by a tiny minority of radical Muslims to enrage all of Islam against the West.

[kach22i]

What is it the wackos keep saying?

If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear?

If we the USA did nothing wrong, then why would we fear the pictutres or the actions of a few in isolated incidents?

[widebody911]

Originally posted by djmcmath
Now let's look at the world picture and see if maybe now is not the best time to try and engrage the Arab world in general

Tough *****. Various groups been trying to get the photos released for what, a year or so? The administration (as they always seem to do) has used up every trick in the book in an attempt to prevent/delay the release of the pix. The fact that the timing bit them in the ass politically was nobody's fault but their own. What did they think they were going to do, release them the day before Hillary's inaugural address?

The pictures appear to be more from the same set that caused the orignal scandal, but by suppressing (or trying to) them, they attempted to downplay the magnitude of the scandal. With the previous set, the NeoCon mouthpieces (Limbaugh, O'Reilly, et al) could dismiss the whole thing as a 'fraternity prank. These pictures seem to suggest otherwise.

If these pictures had come out with the rest of the bunch, the ***** storm would have been bigger, but it would be behind us now. But no, GWB refused. Now that the rest of the ***** is hitting the fan, the NeoCons are wrapping themselves in the flag, and blaming the liberals, the press - anyone within buckshot range - because the policy of deception set forth by the Karl Rove and the Ministry of Truth backfired. The Administration has it's ***** in the wringer again, but we're supposed to look the other way under the guise of 'supporting the troops'.

Now let's look at the world picture and see if maybe now is not the best time to try to indvade and occupy any Arab countries.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
99% of the time these scum are treated like prison royalty...That this is even an issue is because those against us, even within our own country, want to damage Bush and undermine the war.

You got that right. I want to stop the war effort cold, in it's torturing and murdering tracks.

The culprits at Abu Ghraib were facing justice even without the sensationalist press seizing upon it and making the mole hill into a mountain.

Since the invasion of Iraq was illegal under both US and International law, all who were imprisoned at Abu Graib under US government control were the victims of war crimes; which, unfortunately, didn't stop at unlawful imprisonment (i.e. kidnapping), the crimes included all levels of torture including torturing people to death.

I demand that those US government serial murderers that committed these atrocities be made known to the American public NOW, be arrested NOW, and be put on trial NOW.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by djmcmath
The issue here isn't even whether Bad Things happened at Abu Ghraib. Let's acknowledge for a moment that some really awful stuff happened there 3 years ago.

Three years ago? Try this morning and every day since the US government invasion. None of this behavior has stopped, what has been stopped is US government thugs taking their own videos and photos of their activities. Those devices are now banned, and everyone working at Abu Graib and other US government torture centers are searched prior to entry.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by fastpat
Three years ago? Try this morning and every day since the US government invasion. None of this behavior has stopped, what has been stopped is US government thugs taking their own videos and photos of their activities. Those devices are now banned, and everyone working at Abu Graib and other US government torture centers are searched prior to entry.

You do understand that Saddam had a direct relationship with al qaeda and other upstart would-be terrorist groups like ansar al Islam, don't you?...You are apprised (albeit buried in the GET CHENEY! din) that Saddam tapes were recently released that PROVE that he had an was bent on reconstituting weapons, don't you?

The invasion was justified and the abuses were being internally dealt with by the military...We certainly didn't need the politicization of our military and trial by media propaganda organ.

[bryanthompson]

The major media in this country:

- Will NOT show cartoons that have sparked riots across the mid-east, because it may offend muslims

- Are positively drooling over the prospect of pictures that make our troops look bad

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
You do understand that Saddam had a direct relationship with al qaeda

No, that's simply an outright lie.

and other upstart would-be terrorist groups like ansar al Islam, don't you?...You are apprised (albeit buried in the GET CHENEY! din) that Saddam tapes were recently released that PROVE that he had an was bent on reconstituting weapons, don't you?

Voices on tapes prove exactly nothing. An audio recording, even if authentic and there's little enough proof of that, without tangible evidence, reviewed for authenticity by disinterested third parties, are worthless.

The invasion was justified and the abuses were being internally dealt with by the military...We certainly didn't need the politicization of our military and trial by media propaganda organ.

The invasion is just more socialism in action. And, as I've said multiple times, your support for the invasion demonstrates that you are as solidly socialist as any other Bush'ist.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
- Are positively drooling over the prospect of pictures that make our troops look bad

Dunno about that - they got scooped 2 or 3 days ago by an Aussie paper.