Pilots: Best way for IFR rating?

[Dantilla]

Okay, Joe, Sing, Tim, et al-

I have always enjoyed finger on the map and look out the window type flying, but recently was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to buy into a very well-equipped Bonanza.

In order to really take advantage of this great pile of avionics, it's time for an instrument ticket.

Should I just go to my local FBO where I got my Private license?
Should I start working on the written first?
Have any of you tried the total immersion courses where I spend a few days going around the country under a hood?
Should I try a few aileron rolls here and there to keep the instructor on his toes?

Any suggestions or comments?

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Dantilla
Okay, Joe, Sing, Tim, et al-

I have always enjoyed finger on the map and look out the window type flying, but recently was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to buy into a very well-equipped Bonanza.

In order to really take advantage of this great pile of avionics, it's time for an instrument ticket.

Should I just go to my local FBO where I got my Private license?
Should I start working on the written first?
Have any of you tried the total immersion courses where I spend a few days going around the country under a hood?
Should I try a few aileron rolls here and there to keep the instructor on his toes?

Any suggestions or comments?

First question, how many hours per year do you fly or think you will fly? If it's under 100 per year, that's barely enough to keep proficient.

At least, that was the rule of thumb back when I was involved in aviation, before I went into the Operating Room.

[dhoward]

Originally posted by Dantilla
Okay, Joe, Sing, Tim, et al-

I have always enjoyed finger on the map and look out the window type flying, but recently was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to buy into a very well-equipped Bonanza.
Snipped.....

V-35 "Doctor killer"?
Cool!

[Joeaksa]

Dantilla,

Best way if you can do it is to take a week or 10 days off and get it done all at once. Doing it piecemeal is an option but you forget and get rusty under the hood if you do not keep at it.

Eons ago I did my Commercial/instrument at a place called Sheble Aviation in Blythe, but they have moved to Salton Sea I believe. Gave me a very good deal and had it done in a week but then had my written passed.

As well there are guys who will come to your location and do the IFR ticket in your plane all at one time. More expensive but for guys who are pressed with time and cannot leave home its an option.

If you can get your written passed beforehand its a big help.

Joe A

[fastpat]

Originally posted by dhoward
V-35 "Doctor killer"?
Cool!

Ha! I didn't know others knew about that dark humor; what's the world's most dangerous thing in aviation? A doctor in a Bonanza.

[Tim Hancock]

Dantilla, I do not have mine as I presently do not think I would make use of it often enough. That said, when someday I buy (or build) a traveling plane, I will either suck-up to the local CFI that runs the nearest FBO (maybe trade some mechanic time for CFI time) or do an "all at once course" like Joe mentioned. Either way, most PRIVATE pilots I know, that have their IFR ratings claim that they do not do it enough to stay very current. The older I get, the less I feel like flying blind in a single engine airplane. Someday when I do my dream restoration of a late 50's Cessna 310, I will just have to get it over with!

[Joeaksa]

Like Tim says, many guys do not use it that much.

I started getting my IFR after one incident that I will never forget. Was a young pup and flying VFR between two large cities. Going up the interstate highway and weather started coming down. Finally got down to 500 feet and I should have turned around but did not.

Did not realize how low I was until I had to pull up to avoid the bridge over the highway... scared the you know what out of me and started studying the next week. Far too many pilots get caught out and die in the process. If you feel you need it, then go for it, and even if you do not use it that often, it may just save your life someday.

Joe

[dhoward]

Originally posted by fastpat
Ha! I didn't know others knew about that dark humor; what's the world's most dangerous thing in aviation? A doctor in a Bonanza.

I always called 'em that. V-tail doctor-killer. Used to be people understood, but now it has to be a pretty old guy...
It's not hard to get 'em to Vne
Very clean and fast...

[dhoward]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Like Tim says, many guys do not use it that much.

I started getting my IFR after one incident that I will never forget. Was a young pup and flying VFR between two large cities. Going up the interstate highway and weather started coming down. Finally got down to 500 feet and I should have turned around but did not.

Did not realize how low I was until I had to pull up to avoid the bridge over the highway... scared the you know what out of me and started studying the next week. Far too many pilots get caught out and die in the process. If you feel you need it, then go for it, and even if you do not use it that often, it may just save your life someday.

Joe

I always wondered about the logic. I'm not cert IFR so I won't use 'em? Sorry, there's just no magic there....

[singpilot]

It's funny, after all the years and years of doing this for a living, I actualy log less than 20 hours a year instrument time typically. And 12 of that is in my twice a year 6 hour sim ride. I typically log 600 to 700 hours of flight a year total....

The only time I see actual is very briefly on a departure, and hopefully fairly briefly on an arrival. Not like the old days of slogging thru it. Am always above it now.

It actually is magic, a combination of skill and art.

Except that your life depends on doing it well.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Sheble is scary. . . Fast & cheap <> good. They'll get you your rating fast, but it's a mill - keep that in mind.

I could recommend a couple of really good CFIIs here in SoCal, but up in the northwest (where I did a bunch of flying as a freight dog as well) I'd say your BEST bet is to go with a good experienced local instructor. Preferably someone a little older - the IFR conditions in the northwest can get downright hair-raising at times!

Bonanza is a great airplane but as with anything else be aware of its limits and don't exceed them. New IFR pilot with ink still wet on certificate+complex aircraft+hard IMC = recipe for disaster. Little steps. A good CFII will tell you once you have your rating, it can easily be a license to go kill yourself - give yourself a lot of time to build up your ability once you get it.

As has also been (correctly) said, be very careful if you're not going to fly much. Heck, in my cargo rat days I used to log 3 or 4 ILS approaches down to minimums with 30-knot crosswinds all in a day's work and the needles wouldn't even twitch. Now, I'd probably just scare myself or worse. No substitute for the real thing and currency. Once you have your certificate, there's no shame in going up with someone else "just in case" if you're a little off your game. IFR flying is 10% skill and 90% good judgement, just like VFR flying.

Best of luck! Keep us up on how it's going!

[Tim Hancock]

Originally posted by dhoward
I always wondered about the logic. I'm not cert IFR so I won't use 'em? Sorry, there's just no magic there....

Well everyone learns how to fly on basic instruments when they get their private. I have (I mean someone I know ) on occasion had to let down or climb thru a "hole" that some how seems to close up part way thru. IMO, every pilot should practice some hood time on occasion, yet in reality it just does not happen that often. Most pilots will claim that they are very safety conscience and never play with weather. While this is mainly true, all of us at one time or another have found ourselves in a situation that in hindsight we know was not too smart. So I agree that we all need to at least be proficient enough on basic IFR instruments to hopefully save our bacon when we need to do a 180 back to clear sky when the sky closes in on us.

For me, flying over water is the worst as even flying on a clear day, it does not take long for me to start getting a panicky feeling due to the loss of horizon reference. (I stay w/in visual contact of shore almost exclusively!)

I can only hope that someday if I pull a boner and stupidly fly myself into a bad spot, that I will be able to recognise in time and switch to instruments and call ATC for help, legal consequences be damned.

I think John Jr had his IFR rating or close to it when he got disoriented and bought the farm. So just getting the rating does not mean always mean it will keep you safe, recent experience and actually being on an IFR flight plan is always going to trump accidentally flying into IFR conditions even if the pilot has an IFR rating.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by singpilot
It's funny, after all the years and years of doing this for a living, I actualy log less than 20 hours a year instrument time typically. And 12 of that is in my twice a year 6 hour sim ride. I typically log 600 to 700 hours of flight a year total....

The only time I see actual is very briefly on a departure, and hopefully fairly briefly on an arrival. Not like the old days of slogging thru it. Am always above it now.

It actually is magic, a combination of skill and art.

Except that your life depends on doing it well.

Michael,

Know what you mean. The birds we fly are so fast and climb so rapidly (have seen 14,000 feet a minute on takeoff) that you do not stay in the soup long. Not like the old prop days where you would log hours of IFR a flight.

Just shot a rough one in Vienna recently. A RVR of 500 with freezing fog reported on approach, just inside our limits. Got over the marker inbound and it went down to 100 meters so we continued and started to miss, then saw the lights and landed. When you are going 160 mph on landing, seeing only 100 meters is a bit tight. Could not even see to taxi, it was so bad. We left the xponder on and the tower gave us progressive to taxi in!

Was a rough approach but good practice. Guess the years of experience help at times.

[dhoward]

Trying to figure out the art, part.
Under the hood was all skill. Practice, practice, practice.
Of course 20 years ago in rentals, just getting the nav/coms to power up was a bit of an art!

edit: make that 28 years ago. 25 years since my last left seat. I must be getting old

[PorschePilot]

Welcome to the Bonanza club. I have had my V-Tail for about 8 years now. It's a great airplane and the people who put it down should stick to flying Cessna's.

I did my instrument rating in my Bonanza and used an instructor from the FBO. We committed to fly 3 times a week and we got it knocked out quickly. I recommend that do some longer VFR cross country's to get use to the airplane and focus on flying the airplane precisely. Then jump into the Instrument training.

While you are training get some actual IFR, it's an eye opener.

Your instrument rating will change the way you look at cross country trips.

Doctors bought V-tail's for the same reasons they bought a Mercedes, they were the best.

Have Fun.

[singpilot]

Not too long ago, I was down low approaching Teterboro, and the guy I was flying with was a grizzled retired UAL Captain. BTDT kinda guy (and he had).... Woman checks onto freq in a Bonanza. ATC almost immediately gives her as traffic to us, 500' below, crossing R to L under us.

Partner looks out the right side window, picks up the mike and says... "We have the split-tail V-tail in sight."

You could have heard a pin drop on the frequency.

[Tim Hancock]

I have not heard many people rip on Bonanzas, I think they were ripping on the stereotypical image of a doctor who can afford to buy more airplane than he can handle (not that a Bonanza is hard to handle).

I occasionally go thru a brief urge to pick up an old one and restore it, when I am not thinking about picking up an old 356, RS project, old Cessna 310,145,165,195, old violins for restoration, 70's Honda MX bikes, old Chris-Craft for restoration, Ferrari 348/355 (that one is more of a dream) etc etc. hahaha!!!
Hell, all toys are fun!!!

What year is your Bonanza PorschePilot?

[dhoward]

Originally posted by PorschePilot
Snipped.....

Doctors bought V-tail's for the same reasons they bought a Mercedes, they were the best.

Have Fun.

Without a doubt.
In the olden days, no single besides a Mooney could touch it. Seems like the TC models 210 at fl 220ish? Maybe I'm off...
Most of the noteriety came from, I belive, instances of stress in the ruddervator in some of the earlier v35 versions. Not common, but like anything else, all it takes is a little talk.
I just found out the guy across the street from me bought a Senneca 3.
Crap.

[air-cool-me]

just geting the rating will make you a better pilot..


-nick

(Right now im working on my multi engine instrument)

[PorschePilot]

Tim,

My Bonanza is a 1960 or should I say was a 1960. Mine now has an upgraded engine IO-520 and I have installed a D'Shannon instrument panel and speed slope windshield. New radios including a Garmin 530. S-Tec 55 autopilot. New paint and interior a few years back.

It cost almost as much to restore as my 911..ha ha. Maybe I should write a book, my gold plated bonanza.