"It shifts better than a Ferrari Enzo"

[HardDrive]

I'll give the kid credit, he's got brass ones.

I'm at the VW dealer looking at the new GTI, and I notice it has paddle shifters. Me thinks....VW+auto tranny = Lots of time at repair shop. Oh no, the kid insists. Great transmission, and then makes the statement about it superiority to an Enzo. Now, keep in mind, I have not driven an Enzo lately , but why am I a bit skeptical....lol.

btw, wonderful little car. Loaded to the gills for less than 30k. Like my current VW, I'm sure it will be a great car....for about 50,000. Then, as the warranty runs out, the paper mache, Elmers glue and rubber bands they built it will start to go Tango Uniform.

[SlowToady]

The DSG gearbox? From everything I've heard, it DOES shift better than ANY gearbox out there.

And Ferrari is trying to buy it.

(It's made by Gertag(sp?) for VW.)

My brother is a VW enthusiast and just sold his 20th Anniversary edition 1.8T 6spd for a new Jetta with the DSG gearbox. I guess 10 years of driving stick in traffic finally got to him:-P

[techweenie]

DSG is okay, but not perfect. lots of freewheeling when transitioning from reverse to first. Some low-speed maneuvers feel like DSG is 'feathering' the clutch. I'm willing to bet it'll be improved within the next 2-3 years.

[HardDrive]

Originally posted by SlowToady
The DSG gearbox? From everything I've heard, it DOES shift better than ANY gearbox out there.

And Ferrari is trying to buy it.

Arrrrrrrrggggghghhh!!! Don't say THAT. So tempting. Sure, the thing with explode at 50k, but those first 4 years are a blast.

I gotta hand it to VW, even with all of the little electrical gremlins in their cars, you get a hell of a lot of fun for very little money. I b!tch about my beetle, but its always been fun to drive, and mines the early 150hp 1.8T.

[84porsche]

Originally posted by HardDrive
I gotta hand it to VW, even with all of the little electrical gremlins in their cars, you get a hell of a lot of fun for very little money. I b!tch about my beetle, but its always been fun to drive, and mines the early 150hp 1.8T.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I complain about my VW occasionally but it is alot of fun for the money. 6-speed 200HP 24v 6 cyl engine in the old Jetta body style. It gets up an goes pretty quickly but then again so does the money. I got the 100k warranty just for the electrical gremlins in case all the bugs were not worked out by 2003. The DSG is a great option, I would like to drive again without a salesperson in the car so I can experience it better, one of these days.

[dd74]

Interesting - when you go to the VW site and "build" a GTI, if you select the DSG gearbox, the 0-60 time posted as one builds the GTI goes down from the 0-60 times of the traditional manual gearbox. When I built one and selected DSG, the 0-60 time went down 3/10ths of a second.

Incidentally, many trade magazines support this decrease in 0-60 times between the DSG and manual transmissions.

What does that mean in the real world? Nothing mostly during day-to-day driving.

Ur...but if one's day-to-day driving involves hard driving, well...

[RickM]

Interesting observations. A friend tells me the F430 paddle shifter/trans is markedly better than either the civilian 360 or 360 Challenge. The "older" Enzo system would likely be improved if produced today.

[BGCarrera32]

Just keep in mind the GTI is Mexican, not German.

[Rot 911]

Friend of mine just drove the GTI with DSG and here is what he wrote me:
"The DSG...

It's brilliant, it shifts seamlessly, by far the best AT I've ever driven. BMW wishes their SMG was this good. Not one hint of bucking or downtime, you don't even realize it's shifting unless you're really getting on it. Even when you're hammering on the throttle you have to pay attention to realize you just went up a gear. No early shifts here either, the car fully utilizes its powerband. In sport mode using the paddles, it's just as smooth and won't try to dictate what RPMs you're in, even allowing you to go past the redline before it shifts for you. Like I said, it's brilliantly executed, I however still felt detached. I felt like I was playing a videogame rather than driving a car, the smoothness with which it carried out my little clicks of the paddles enhanced that feeling. In fact the car is so good in auto mode I don't even see the point of the paddles.

If I owned this car I'd play with the paddles for the first week or two and probably never use them again unless I did a track day. Even then the benefits of the paddles would be minimal, and I'd question my own sanity for buying an auto if I intended to do track days.

On a side note, the shifts are so quick and seamless the DSG did feel faster than the MT. A very well driven MT would still be a tick faster in my mind, but not consistently so. Average 10 1/4 mile times between the two cars and the DSG will come out the victor. Both cars also had some wheel spin when getting on it in low gears, but no typical torque steer or wheel hop."

[HardDrive]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
Just keep in mind the GTI is Mexican, not German.

Nope. The Golf is produced in Brazil.

The GTIs are produced in German. Say so right on the sticker. This puppy is more A3 than a Golf....

[Yellowbird RS]

great rearbox info: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/gearbox/tech_gear_manual.htm

[oldE]

What seperates the VW DSG from the BMW & Ferrari boxes is the dual-(wet)clutch system on the VW. In the others, the torque is interrupted while the gear is swapped (however briefly) in the VW, one clutch is driving 1st, 3rd & 5th, the other powers 2nd, 4th & 6th. When the transmission is swapping ratios, one clutch takes up the drive as the other releases. Much smoother and no interruption of torque.
I too wonder at the long term durability, but can't help but think how nice it would be if Porsche used this system for its autoboxes.
Les

[Yellowbird RS]

Originally posted by oldE

I too wonder at the long term durability, but can't help but think how nice it would be if Porsche used this system for its autoboxes.
Les

VW, Audi and Lamborghini dose, I don't know why Posche dosn't use the DSG

[mschuep]

Some salespeople will say anything.
I bought an Aiwa minisystem a long time ago. The guy told me "Aiwa and Sony are the same company, all the best parts go into the Aiwa's"

The Aiwa crapped out a few years later and I got all my money back under the lemon rule (xtended wrrnty, etc.) Wouldn't you know it, when I was shopping for my new stereo, I told another guy I wasn't crazy about Aiwa because my last one crapped out. He said, "You should have gotten a sony, all the crappy parts go into the aiwa's, and the sony get the good ones."

Truth is neither on is worth a hoot 'cause they both use the same parts. Whatever, I don't know crap about VW's, chances are that salesman doesn't either. Sorry for the story, I'm extremely bored "working"

[SlowToady]

Originally posted by RickM
Interesting observations. A friend tells me the F430 paddle shifter/trans is markedly better than either the civilian 360 or 360 Challenge. The "older" Enzo system would likely be improved if produced today.

Last year or so I heard on SpeedVision that a key reason Ferrari couldn't beat Porsche was the Ferrari's gearbox was just too slow. I'm sure Ferrari has rectified that by now.

Tomorrow I think I'm going to go drive a DSG equipped R32. If only I could afford one...

I really doubt that a streetable MT would ever be faster than DSG, but I might be wrong. A fully setup race box, perhaps. I've heard the Porsche factory drivers can shift in 1/10sec; I've never seen anyone get anywhere near that one the street with a production transmission.

Of course, at the end of the day, does it really matter? Switching my own gears makes me feel better, no matter how much faster and more precise DSG is.

[RickM]

When in his Challenge car on the track I can say with high confidence that he was shifting far quicker than any manual trans I've ever seen. The shifts were near instant and seamless.

[gprsh924]

Originally posted by Yellowbird RS
VW, Audi and Lamborghini dose, I don't know why Posche dosn't use the DSG

porsche is trying to get it into their street cars. they have been using it on the track since the 1970's however the street version is not yet refined enough in fully automode. the plan (according to what i read in Motor Trend and Road and Track) is to eventually have the DSG in all of their auto cars. thats why the 997 autos retained the 5 speed tiptronic rather than an improved 6 speed tip as is pretty much standard now across teh board in that class. currently though, it still needs a little bit of tweaking.

[dd74]

Will DSG replace manual transmissions?

If I were buying a new VW/Audi, I'd give it serious consideration.

[HardDrive]

I just got back from driving at GTI with the DSG tranny......WOW. Instant shifts up and down, matches the revs perfectly.

Whats really cool is how easy it is to switch from full auto to semi auto. You just get in and drive, but if you get the urge and tap one of the paddles, it kicks it ito manual mode. If you want to go full manual, you just push the trans stick to the right, then you can use the paddles or the auto stick. It will let you run to 100 rpm over red line before it forces a shift.

Just awesome. Within 2 minutes, your not even thinking about the trans. You can just lazily go back and forth between manual mode and full auto, and the car has your back.

[gprsh924]

that sounds awesome....i still love my clutch though