Socialized healthcare costs (Germany)

lendaddy · 03-03-2006, 04:50 PM

I read an article in an auto rag that was talking to a German guy that ran a small company. The article was about machining, not politics but the question came up anyway.

They asked him what employers pay per employee toward "national health care contributions". He said employers are required to pay 12.3% of the employees gross wages! Then he added that the employee himself is forced to give another 10% of their wages! Holy balls, that's insane! $0.233 of every dollar just for their healthcare system.

Yea........I'm gonna have to pass, but thanks for the offer

Don Ro · 03-03-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Holy balls, that's insane! $0.233 of every dollar just for their healthcare system.

Yea........I'm gonna have to pass, but thanks for the offer

Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 4 - Miscellaneous > Off Topic Discussions > I will not vote for Hillary

Moses · 03-03-2006, 05:29 PM

As soon as socialized medicine hits our fair nation, I'll start making some real money!

Doctors will unionize (we are currently forbidden that option.) There will be strikes and we'll get a 40 hour workweek. Yippee! Since I usually work about 80 hours/week, show me the money, baby! (does this mean I need to vote for Hillary?)

rrpjr · 03-03-2006, 06:26 PM

Time for "Upfixen der Nanny State".

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

I doubt my buddy will see this...he is in year 1 of med school...

3 years ago, he thought that Canada was the place to be to practice medicine, until he saw the loans he was taking and the money to be made in Canada.

And a few articles I sent his way

step 2, get him to join the NRA

Step 3, Republican

"I thought step one was collect underpants..."

snowman · 03-03-2006, 08:00 PM

The most indelible thing in my mind of my last visit to the UK was the daily storys in the paper of someone that died waiting for medical care, just another screwup in the everyday operation of a single payer system. Then I remember the citizens of the UK who have moved to our country. Rally behind the queen. But take the US medical system in the meantime. They make a LOT of money here, more than they ever could in the UK, but they support that corrupt system in the UK for unknown reasons. Then theres the current residents of the UK, they come here for medical care. Why? Because they are rich and they know where the best care is, and it ain't in the free UK system.

just why do these zelots want to F up our system when its their salvation? Politics over reason.

BlueSkyJaunte · 03-03-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Those of you who don't own your own company have no idea how much health insurance really costs. You think that you're not paying for it, but in reality, your wages would be higher if the companies didn't pay for it.

I'd rather have that option, then I could SHOP for healthcare instead of being stuck with my lame-ass HMO.

snowman · 08:30 PM

Most people here make a lot more than $28K per year, more like $50K or more for the typical 2 earner family. Thats about $12 per hour. By the way Illegal wetbacks make over $10 per hour in CA and probably make nearly that much elsewhere. Thats over $40K per year for a two earner family. And thats for a 40 hour workweek. The illegals I have met work much more than that. And thats 100% TAX FREE. Their heath care is also 100% Free.

The statistics that are collected include a whole lot of high school kids and college kids that work for $7 per hour. But they have heath insurance from their parents and do not pay rent. If our free health coverage, the kind the illegals get when they go the the hospital without any insurance was as bad as the German or English systems there would be hell to pay, but that "uninsured" coverage is Better than the coverage of those countries. By the way good coverage is about $1500 per month for a family or about $500 per person and thats thru an employer. The kind of coverage the europeans get is only worth about $150 per month for a family. That means a lot of dead people are the payment.

If you are getting medical for a family for $550 per month tell me where I can buy some cause it certainly isn't here. And if it is it must be just band aid coverage.

Moses · 03-03-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moses
As soon as socialized medicine hits our fair nation, I'll start making some real money!

Doctors will unionize (we are currently forbidden that option.) There will be strikes and we'll get a 40 hour workweek. Yippee! Since I usually work about 80 hours/week, show me the money, baby! (does this mean I need to vote for Hillary?)

I just re-read this pathetic attempt at sarcasm. Of course any single payer system will signal the end of pioneering treatments and world-class service. Hope I'm retired before it happens.

In any industry, when the consumer is not empowered to make the final product choice, quality and value suffer. Health care benefits should be awarded as vouchers, and let the individual consumer choose the plan that best suits them. If your employers voucher will only cover a bottom rung HMO, you would always have the option of upgrading at your own expense. It's time to force doctors, hospitals and HMOs to actually compete for our business.

snowman · 03-03-2006, 08:26 PM

Moses,

Right on!!!

campbellcj · 03-03-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
It's about $550 / month for healthcare for a family. That's about $7K a year. If you make $28K, then that's 25%, or similar to the German rate...

Those of you who don't own your own company have no idea how much health insurance really costs. You think that you're not paying for it, but in reality, your wages would be higher if the companies didn't pay for it.

-Wayne

FWIW the (Blue Cross) plan we have is more like $400/mo per PERSON. For older employees not yet eligible for Medicare, it can get up to $1,000/mo territory!!!

In our business, full-time exempt salaries rarely are below 40K so let's say 12% for healthcare for a relatively young, healthy, entry-level employee....i.e. much of the workforce in an IT type of firm.

Most employees have NO idea about these costs, or other taxes and expenses that directly pertain to their jobs but are covered by the employer.

Rikao4 · 03-04-2006, 06:03 AM

Well my aunt is currently living there. My Uncle a retired German up there IRS type, so $$ is not an issue for them.Hearing what she is going thru to get treated is very sad..his response..I'm taking her to AMERIKA, scheisse und noch mal scheisse...in the beginning maybe not a bad plan..now over-run by leeches.
Rika

lendaddy · 03-04-2006, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
It's about $550 / month for healthcare for a family. That's about $7K a year. If you make $28K, then that's 25%, or similar to the German rate...

Those of you who don't own your own company have no idea how much health insurance really costs. You think that you're not paying for it, but in reality, your wages would be higher if the companies didn't pay for it.

-Wayne

How many families earn only $28k? Actually a family living on that would get Medicaid no problem. The real test is a single individual. Insurance for one of my employees is $275 a month regardless of age, so their coverage costs roughly half that of the German system.

Now imagine a married couple both working in Germany, say a teacher and an engineer or something. Combined they'll make $125k or so a year. This means for two people it will cost $31k a year for "insurance".....WOW!

Rikao4 · 03-04-2006, 06:14 AM

Len, that is my Uncle point, they have paid alot into it, now getting minimal results back.
Rika

Rikao4 · 03-04-2006, 06:18 AM

Funny , as time marched on..he went from let's save all..to HEY ..what about ME, I'm tired of taken care of THEM.

Rika

1967 R50/2 · 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Those of you who don't own your own company have no idea how much health insurance really costs. You think that you're not paying for it, but in reality, your wages would be higher if the companies didn't pay for it.

-Wayne

Forgive me for being cynical: Let's say public healthcare becomes a reality TOMORROW.

1. My company will immediatly cut healthcare coverage...no need for it if the gov't is picking up the tab. And , there would BE NO WAY IN HELL that they'd give me a raise as a result.

They'd just pocket the extra.

2. I would pay more in my taxes.

Lose-Lose situation.

lendaddy · 03-04-2006, 06:27 AM

I offer $0.75 per hour raise if they have other or don't want my insurance. But I do know most companies just say tough noogies.

RoninLB · 03-04-2006, 06:41 AM

Moses is very correct to empower the consumer.

Our health system is disfunctional and will stay that way for as long as political socialists are supported by the voters. The Dems flipped when 401-k started as it turned all 401-k voters into capitalists. Central command and control Hillary is the most powerful socialist in the country. She'll do her best to invoke the European model of healthcare. Some voters will demand gov't entitlements and some will want gov't independence.

Medical insurance law is also dysfunctional. A medical insurance company in Iowa can't sell a policy in NY. That means less competition and lower consumer power.

Rikao4 · 03-04-2006, 06:49 AM

Believe it's NY, outfit sells a deal for folks that have insurance..Extra $$$ get's you housecalls,delivery of scrips, and alot of other perks...he is rolling in $$.
Kia for the masses, P for $
Rika

livi · 03-04-2006, 07:22 AM

Regrettably I have to advice you that the Swedish system cranks even more money out of our citizens than the German.

I won´t even mention numbers, makes me wanna puke..