Six-stroke gas-steam hybrid engine...

cashflyer · 03-17-2006, 04:53 AM

Sounds like more left-coast craziness... but after reading the article I kinda like the inginuity of the idea. It may have potential!

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

I read about this about 3-weeks ago. I had trouble finding additional information about the inventor and gave up. Your article is better - cool.

More here:
http://www.carnuts.ws/viewtopic.php?t=5348&highlight=steam

1967 R50/2 · 03-17-2006, 05:26 AM

Already posted. By...Ahem...me.

Crower's 6-Stroke Gas/Steam engine

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
Already posted. By...Ahem...me.

Crower's 6-Stroke Gas/Steam engine

Missed that one myself, I'm glad it was double posted. Although in retrospect just a bump would of been better.

cashflyer · 03-17-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
Already posted. By...Ahem...me.

Crower's 6-Stroke Gas/Steam engine

Sorry... I should have searched rather than just checking the first 3 pages.

1967 R50/2 · 03-17-2006, 09:03 AM

Interesting thing. If you read the article it doesn't REALLY explain how it works. When is the water injected EXACTLY? How does it become six strokes? I tried piecing it together after reading it a few times and the closest I could get was this:

1. Initial intake stroke-gas/air goes in
2. Initial compression stroke

Ignition

3. Intial power stroke
4. 2nd compression stroke

Water injection???

5. Steam power stroke
6. Steam and conventional combustion exhaust stroke.

Does this make sense? It seems like you would lose a lot of power by re-compressing the initial combustion gasses in the 2nd compression stroke.

Also, all the moisture in the system is going to be tough on the oil.

ErVikingo · 03-17-2006, 09:21 AM

What about that bigazz tank of H20 you'll have to carry now???

1967 R50/2 · 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ErVikingo
What about that bigazz tank of H20 you'll have to carry now???

If this engine works as advertised, the water weight would only be a small detriment. From the sounds of it, you could kiss your radiator goodbye. That alone would probably make up for the weight of the water .

FrayAdjacent911 · 03-17-2006, 11:05 AM

I believe with the efficiency he was talking about, you could have a gas tank 50% of the normal size, then a water tank, and still get better range out of the total. Also weight savings from the liquid cooling system and radiator... I don't think a vehicle would really end up much heavier at all.

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

I had to peice it together myself and it sounds like he's using a conventional 4 stroke motor, but then between the exhaust stroke and the intake stroke, just using a desiel injector to inject water to convert the latent heat in the combustion chamber to convert the water to steam creating 2 power strokes out of 3 revolutions of the crank rather than 1 power stroke from 2 revolutions. Interesting idea, I'll bet it works pretty well.

gaijindabe · 03-17-2006, 12:56 PM

Considering as much energy goes out the tail pipe as through the flywheel, this sounds like a neat idea.

I can see the first application. Giant Ford F-650 based SUVs that get the same mileage as those based on the F-350..

sammyg2 · 03-17-2006, 02:33 PM

How much time does it take the water vapor to absorb the BTUs from combustion and flash to steam?
What temperature does it take to overcome the higher than ambient boiling point? (hint, to develop 180 psig in the power stroke the water vapor would have to get well over 340 degrees to flash to steam).
The only way around that would be to pre-heat the water under high pressure, but then you have given up the cooling capacity except for the BTUs absorbed throuygh the phase change.

Unless this engine has an extremely long stroke and spins at a painfully slow rpm, the water vapor will stay water vapor. There's a reason steam engines spin slow.
Yes it can be built, yes it will run, but no way no how will it make anywhere near as much power as a conventional comperable displacement sized internal combustion engine.

cashflyer · 03-17-2006, 03:43 PM

I wonder how he is at building generators... ?

1967 R50/2 · 03-18-2006, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sammyg2
What temperature does it take to overcome the higher than ambient boiling point? (hint, to develop 180 psig in the power stroke the water vapor would have to get well over 340 degrees to flash to steam.

He talks about this being best used as a diesel.

Diesel combustion takes place between 1300F and 1650F. It's probably safe to say that the combustion chamber gases are going to be in that temperature range. So assuming a 340F flash point for water, it would seem that "getting up to steam" would be no problem at all.

A nice side benefit of this process could be a reduction in NOx. Diesels are particualrly dirty when it coms to sog emissions because they create more NOx at their typically the high combustion temps. If this could be controlled by a timed water injection, it could be a big emissions breakthrough.

Just a thought.