If Moussaoui doesn't get the needle...
 

If this doesn't get him the death penalty, then we really need to just abolish the fed. death penalty. Who warrants it if Moussaoui doesn't?

Moussaoui Says He Planned
9/11 Attack With Reid

Associated Press
March 28, 2006 6:07 a.m.

ALEXANDRIA, Va. – Al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui testified Monday that he and would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid were supposed to hijack a fifth airplane and fly it into the White House as part of the attack that unfolded Sept. 11, 2001.

Mr. Moussaoui's testimony on his own behalf stunned the courtroom. His account was in stark contrast to his previous statements in which he said the White House attack was to come later if the U.S. refused to release a radical Egyptian sheik imprisoned on earlier terrorist convictions.

On Dec. 22, 2001, Mr. Reid was subdued by passengers when he attempted to detonate a bomb in his shoe aboard American Airlines Flight 63 from Paris to Miami. There were 197 people on board. The plane was diverted to Boston, where it landed safely.

Mr. Moussaoui told the court he knew the World Trade Center attack was coming and that he lied to investigators when arrested in August 2001 because he wanted it to happen.

"You lied because you wanted to conceal that you were a member of al-Qaida?" prosecutor Rob Spencer asked. "That's correct," Mr. Moussaoui said. Mr. Spencer: "You lied so the plan could go forward?" Mr. Moussaoui: "That's correct."

Prosecutor Rob Spencer: You lied because you wanted to conceal that you were a member of al Qaeda?
Zacarias Moussaoui: That's correct.
Spencer: You lied so the plan could go forward?
Moussaoui: That's correct.The exchange was key to the government's case that the attacks might have been averted if Mr. Moussaoui had been more cooperative following his arrest. Mr. Moussaoui told the court he knew the attacks were coming some time after August 2001 and bought a radio so he could hear them unfold. Specifically, he said he knew the World Trade Center was going to be attacked, but asserted he was not part of that plot and didn't know the details.

Nineteen men pulled off the Sept. 11 attacks on New York in Washington in the worst act of terrorism ever on U.S. soil. "I had knowledge that the Twin Towers would be hit," Mr. Moussaoui said. "I didn't know the details of this."

Asked by his lawyer why he signed his guilty plea in April as "the 20th hijacker," Mr. Moussaoui replied: "Because everybody used to refer to me as the 20th hijacker and it was a bit of fun."

Before Mr. Moussaoui took the stand, his lawyers made a last attempt to stop him from testifying, but failed. Defense attorney Gerald Zerkin argued that his client would not be a competent witness because he has contempt for the court, only recognizes Islamic law and therefore "the affirmation he undertakes would be meaningless."

Mr. Moussaoui at first denied he was to have been a fifth hijack pilot but under cross examination spoke of the plan to attack the White House. He said Mr. Reid was the only person he knew for sure would have been on that mission, but others were discussed.

Mr. Reid, a self-proclaimed member of al Qaeda who has pledged support to Osama bin Laden, pleaded guilty in October 2002 to trying to blow up Flight 63 and was sentenced to life in prison.

Mr. Moussaoui testified that at one point he was excluded from pre-hijacking operations because he had gotten in trouble with his al Qaeda superiors on a 2000 trip to Malaysia. He said it was only after he was called back to Afghanistan and talked with Osama bin Laden that he was approved again for the operation. "My position was, like you say, under review."

Previous testimony indicated that Mr. Moussaoui had irritated his hosts in Malaysia who were members of an al Qaeda affiliate. Although al Qaeda was a well-financed group, he had asked his Malaysian hosts for money to take flight training.

The 19 terrorists on Sept. 11 hijacked and crashed four airliners, killing nearly 3,000 people in the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and on the planes. The intended target of the plane that crashed into a Pennsylvania field remains unknown.

Before Mr. Moussaoui took the stand, the court heard testimony that two months before the attacks a CIA deputy chief waited in vain for permission to tell the FBI about a "very high interest" al Qaeda operative who became one of the hijackers. The official, a senior figure in the CIA's Laden unit, said he sought authorization on July 13, 2001, to send information to the FBI but got no response for 10 days, then asked again.

As it turned out, the information on Khalid al-Mihdhar did not reach the FBI until late August. At the time, CIA officers needed permission from a special unit before passing certain intelligence on to the FBI.

The official was identified only as John. His written testimony was read into the record.

"John's" testimony was part of the defense's case that federal authorities missed multiple opportunities to catch hijackers and perhaps thwart the 9/11 plot. His testimony included an e-mail sent by FBI supervisor Michael Maltbie discussing Moussaoui but playing down his terrorist connections. Maltbie's e-mail said "there's no indication that [Moussaoui] had plans for any nefarious activity."

He sent that e-mail to the CIA even after receiving a lengthy memo from the FBI agent who arrested Mr. Moussaoui and suspected him of being a terrorist with plans to hijack aircraft.

Prosecutors argue that Mr. Moussaoui, a French citizen, thwarted a prime opportunity to track down the 9/11 hijackers and possibly unravel the plot when he was arrested in August 2001 on immigration violations and lied to the FBI about his al Qaeda membership and plans to hijack a plane. Had Mr. Moussaoui confessed, the FBI could have pursued leads that would have led them to most of the hijackers, government witnesses have testified.

To win the death penalty, prosecutors must first prove that Mr. Moussaoui's actions -- specifically, his lies -- were directly responsible for at least one death on Sept. 11. If they fail, Mr. Moussaoui would get life in prison.

Needle is too painless for him. .45 to the gut behind the courthouse is a better punishment. Then bury him facing down with a hog to keep him company...

Before anyone jumps on me over the above comments, if this POS had confessed about the hijacking on 9/11 it would have saved thousands of innocent lives. He is just as guilty as those flying the jets because he knew of the plan and told a story designed to confuse the police and FBI.

I'm starting to get a little skeptical here, particularly the bit about Richard Reid. Next he's going to claim credit for the Kennedy assassination...

Folks like Moussaoui should be covered in pig fat and then fed to pigs, feet first, like that poor schmuck in Hannibal.

Who cares?

If he makes the statements in court, under oath, then he should get the punishment.

I guess you have not followed the trial. If he does not get the death penalty, it will have nothing to do with the federal death penalty law, and everything to do with the most incompetent group of prosecutors the trial judge says she has seen since taking the bench.

The guy is begging to die, and the bumbling Justice Department can't accommodate him.

Newsflash: The Justice Department is as incompetent as the rest of the Bush administration. Despite some very good cases, it has repeatedly struck out in terrorism cases, in many instances in a spectacular fashion.

But as long as Bush swaggers for the camera like Rove tells him to, the useful idiots will think he has made us safer. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There shouldn't be a federal death penalty in the first place. This guy should have been tried under state laws which prohibit murder, or attempted murder.

Since this guy was in jail, if memory serves, he can't be charged with either. I'm sure that there are state laws that cover what he did commit, and that's what he should be charged with.

Definitely something going on here. I think he's messing around a bit. Cmon, Richard Reid? Who'd want that dufus on his team attempting to hijack a plane? And just why would Moussaoui spill his guts about "the truth" in court? What does he have to gain? I'm guessing its more mis-information. He is still al Qaida, after all.

Moussoui was in jail long before Richard Reid's arrest. There's no way they could have communicated once Moussaoui was in jail, so his claims should be very easy to corroborate or refute.

And I wonder how many of these "bumbling Justice Dept pukes" were appointed by someone other than Bush?

Sure you are not a parrott? The same things keep coming out of your keyboard, no matter what the subject.

I heard that the crop of asparagus in Europe is poor this year, must be Bush's fault...

Well, the total solar eclipse is tomorrow. With all the noise coming from the left and from the neo-cons, it's kind of like ancient times, when the natives would make a bunch of noise to try to scare away the demons and dragons that were eating the sun. Personally, I think it's Rove. ;)

I know you're a strong proponent of states' rights (like any good Libertarian), but I have to call you on a blanket statement like this.

What about high treason? Selling State (not "state") secrets, etc. in a way that jeopardizes lives or leads to loss of life?

Well, I know your answer is probably going to be "there shouldn't be any State secrets to sell" but that's a larger issue.

Rodeo
A little of topic but how do you get through the day? If the traffic light turns red in front of you do you curse Bush? If your Fed EX is late is that incompetent bast@rd Bush the cause?I hope you are active in campagining for the Democrates becuase you sure need an outlet for your rage
Steve

He's nuttier than a fruitcake. That has been evident for a long, long time.

Nope. But the numerous blown terrorist trials are.

If we win, he gets credit. If they get bungled, like virtually ALL of them have, Bush gets the blame.

That's the way it works, even in the neocon world.

I guess by calling my criticism "rage" you intend to marginalize it. And me.

It's not rage. It's valid criticism of the worst presidency of our generation. Maybe the worst ever.

Yes, we know that you are, but thats why we pray for you every night.

Like CD said above... how do you get through the day? Parking ticket, its Bush's fault. Run out of toilet paper in the stall, well Bush was there before you and used it up. Get to the checkout in the grocery store and the swipe strip on your credit card does not work. Well it must be Bush who used your card while you were asleep...

Hope you work your way out of this phobia and soon before it drives you nuts.

Very valid points Joe. You sure know how to throw a knockout punch.

Now go find those WMDs you are convinced are there ... wanna borrow my metal detector? fint gave it back

You marginalize yourself . You are welcome to your opinion and criticism but your ability to turn every topic into a full blown veniment Bush bash shows your criticism has turned to rage whether you want to step back and admit it or not.
Step away from your hate for a moment. Go for a walk, get some fresh air enjoy your day
Steve

Bingo! He says the same thing about every situation and argument out there.

Give us some facts and prove your case, not just ranting and raving.

Show us where the WMD were destroyed and shut us up, please! Problem is that you cannot do it and until they are either found or proven destroyed, there is a chance that they are out there waiting to be used by the next sicko...

I actually think they should go old school on Moussaoui. String him up in front of the Capitol Building and leave him there for the vultures...

Yeah, right next to Bush.

This mr.Moussoui i don't think has earned the right to be put to death. I think he should be tortured like is al quaida brethren do to there prisoners, and if he dies in the process so be it.

With Pat in the middle.

If you study Arabic culture, the way they treat their captives is not nice. They are usually turned over to the women of the camp, who then take them away and torture them until dead.

The means of torture is not nice and I cannot post what is usually done here on the forum, but suffice to say that it involves all of a mans very sensitive parts. Oh by the way, they are very good at keeping the man alive for hours if not days, while prolonging his agony until he dies.

Most of the guys I know of over there keep a pistol with them in case of capture. After seeing the result of a torture like this most would prefer to die from their own hand.

What liberals are defending those terrorists?...What liberal judges presided over the trials?

Truth is, Moussaoui is likely only guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. I don't believe that carries a death penalty anywhere in the U.S.

If the Feds want to charge him with "hate crimes" and other manufactured violations, they might accomplish his execution...the price being the integrity of the constitution.

Make no mistake, Moussaoui is an animal. I'd love to see him killed, but the law does not allow for that.

You want me to "show you the WMD were destroyed?" You are as crazy as they come.

Ok, for the guy that refuses to believe the administration, the military, the international weapons inspectors, and the entire US intelligence community that Iraq had NO WMD, this will get you started on how miserably the Bush admin has failed with terrorism prosecutions since 9/11.

I know you'll read it with an open mind.

Moussaoui Case Is Latest Misstep in Prosecutions

'There have been a lot of flubs,' a law professor says of the U.S. record in terrorism trials.

By David G. Savage and Richard B. Schmitt
Times Staff Writers

March 14, 2006

WASHINGTON — The botched handling of witnesses in the sentencing trial of Al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui is the latest in a series of missteps and false starts that have beset the Bush administration's prosecution of terrorism cases.

The government has seen juries reject high-profile terrorism charges, judges throw out convictions because of mistakes by the prosecution and the FBI suffer the embarrassment of wrongly accusing an Oregon lawyer of participating in the 2004 Madrid train bombings.

"There have been a lot of flubs," said George Washington University law professor Stephen A. Saltzburg. "I think most observers would say they were underwhelmed by the prosecutions brought so far."

On several occasions, top administration officials have promised more than they delivered. For example, then-Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft announced in 2002 that Jose Padilla, a Bronx-born Muslim, had been arrested on suspicion of "exploring a plan to build and explode a radiological dispersion device, or 'dirty bomb,' in the United States."

Padilla was held nearly four years in a military brig without being charged. This year, as his lawyers appealed his case to the Supreme Court, the administration indicted him in Miami on charges of conspiring to aid terrorists abroad. There was no mention of a "dirty bomb."

In May 2004, the FBI arrested Brandon Mayfield, an Oregon lawyer and Muslim convert, saying that his fingerprint was on a bag containing detonators and explosives linked to the Madrid train bombings that had killed 191 people two months before. The former Army officer was held as a material witness even though officials in Spain considered the fingerprint evidence inconclusive.

Mayfield was freed after almost three weeks in custody and received an apology from the FBI, which blamed the misidentification on a substandard digital image from Spanish authorities.

In other instances, prosecutors took cases to court that proved to be weak:

• A computer science student in Idaho was accused of aiding terrorists when he designed a website that included information on terrorists in Chechnya and Israel. A jury in Boise acquitted Sami Omar Al-Hussayen of the charges in June 2004.

• A Florida college professor was indicted on charges of supporting terrorists by promoting the cause of Palestinian groups. A jury in Tampa acquitted Sami Al-Arian in December.

• Two Detroit men arrested a week after the Sept. 11 attacks were believed to be plotting a terrorist incident, in part based on sketches found in their apartment. A judge overturned the convictions of Karim Koubriti and Abdel-Ilah Elmardoudi after he learned that the prosecutor's key witness had admitted lying to the FBI, a fact the prosecutor had kept hidden.

David Cole, a Georgetown University law professor who has been critical of such prosecutions, blamed pressure from the top. "The government in the war on terrorism has generally swept broadly and put a high premium on convictions at any cost," he said. "That puts pressures on prosecutors — to overcharge, to coach witnesses, to fail to disclose exculpatory evidence."

But Andrew McBride, a former federal prosecutor in Virginia, said it was unfair to blame prosecutors for the apparent witness tampering in the Moussaoui case.

"You can't really lay this at the door of the prosecution," he said. "This is a lawyer at the TSA [Transportation Security Administration] who screwed up. The rule of witnesses is pretty well known. You would think she would know you are not supposed to discuss the earlier testimony with your witnesses."

In a recent report on its terrorism prosecutions, the Justice Department called Moussaoui's decision last year to plead guilty to conspiracy charges one of its leading successes.

But U.S. District Judge Leonie M. Brinkema already has questioned whether the French citizen deserves the death penalty; Moussaoui was in jail in Minnesota on a visa violation when hijackers seized four passenger jets and caused almost 3,000 deaths by crashing them into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and a Pennsylvania field. the Supreme Court has said the death penalty should be reserved for murderers and "major participants" in murder plots. Prosecutors are pushing for the death penalty under the theory that Moussaoui could have prevented the terrorist attacks by telling the FBI about the plot.

Terrorism cases have proved to be especially difficult for prosecutors because investigators need to disrupt plots before they come to fruition. That leaves prosecutors to make a decision on whether to bring a thin case to court. By contrast, in drug cases, police and drug agents can track suspects and arrest them when they take possession of large quantities of narcotics.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, officials feared there were terrorist "sleeper cells" throughout the nation, ready to spring into action. Since then, the determined pursuit of Al Qaeda members and sympathizers has turned up relatively few terrorists.

"The good news may be that there are not as many threatening people out there as we once thought," law professor Saltzburg said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-botched14mar14,0,2818335.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Nice cut and paste Rodehard. Now again, where in your post is the proof that the WMD were destroyed. Not one word about it yet you rant and rave about it in the header.

Look in the mirror next time you can. The person standing there is the loony one.

The only time I will (incorrectly) blame Bush, is when I'm going down on a girl and I get hair in my teeth.

Hey Rodeo
I borrowed your glasses and read the article! Now I see what your talking about! How could we all have been so blind! And by the LA times, that vastion of Right Wing politics
I ran the peice thru your filter on my computer and reprinted the peice the way you read it here so everyone can be inlightened

By David G. Savage and Richard B. Schmitt
Times Staff Writers

March 14, 2006

WASHINGTON — The botched handling of witnesses in the sentencing trial of Al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui by President Bush is the latest in a series of missteps and false starts by The President that have beset the Bush administration's prosecution of terrorism cases.

The government has seen juries reject high-profile terrorism charges, judges throw out convictions because of mistakes by George Bush and the FBI suffer the embarrassment of wrongly accusing an Oregon lawyer of participating in the 2004 Madrid train bombings.

"There have been a lot of flubs," said George Washington University law professor Stephen A. Saltzburg. "I think most observers would say they were underwhelmed by the prosecutions brought so far by the inept President George Bush."

On several occasions, top administration officials and personnally President Bush have promised more than they delivered. For example, then-Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft under direct orders from George Bush announced in 2002 that Jose Padilla, a Bronx-born Muslim, had been arrested by GW Bush on suspicion of "exploring a plan to build and explode a radiological dispersion device, or 'dirty bomb,' in the United States."

Padilla was held nearly four years by President Bush in a military brig without being charged. This year, as his lawyers appealed his case to the Supreme Court, the administration under the direct order of President Bush indicted him in Miami on charges of conspiring to aid terrorists abroad. There was no mention of a "dirty bomb."

In May 2004, the FBI along with President Bush arrested Brandon Mayfield, an Oregon lawyer and Muslim convert, saying that his fingerprint was on a bag containing detonators and explosives linked to the Madrid train bombings that had killed 191 people two months before. The "evidence" was personnally found at the scene by President George W Bush.The former Army officer was held as a material witness at the White House under direct survenlence by GW Bush even though officials in Spain considered the fingerprint evidence inconclusive.

Mayfield was freed after almost three weeks in custody by Bush and received an apology from the FBI, which blamed the misidentification on President Bush and a substandard digital image from Spanish authorities. There was no apology from President Bush

In other instances, George Bush along with prosecutors took cases to court that proved to be weak:

• A computer science student in Idaho was accused by President Bush of aiding terrorists when he designed a website that included information on terrorists in Chechnya and Israel. A jury in Boise acquitted Sami Omar Al-Hussayen of the charges in June 2004.

• A Florida college professor was indicted by Bush on charges of supporting terrorists by promoting the cause of Palestinian groups. A jury in Tampa acquitted Sami Al-Arian in December.

• Two Detroit men arrested a week after the Sept. 11 attacks were believed to be plotting a terrorist incident, in part based on sketches found by President Bush in their apartment. A judge overturned the convictions of Karim Koubriti and Abdel-Ilah Elmardoudi after he learned that the prosecutor's key witness had admitted lying to the FBI, a fact the prosecutor and President Bush had kept hidden.

David Cole, a Georgetown University law professor who has been critical of such prosecutions, blamed pressure from George Bush. "The government in the war on terrorism has generally swept broadly and put a high premium on convictions at any cost," he said. "That puts pressures on prosecutors — to overcharge, to coach witnesses, to fail to disclose exculpatory evidence."

But Andrew McBride, a former federal prosecutor in Virginia, said it was unfair to blame prosecutors for the apparent witness tampering in the Moussaoui case. He stated everything is really President Bush's direct fault

"You can't really lay this at the door of the prosecution," he said. "This is President Bush and a lawyer at the TSA [Transportation Security Administration] who screwed up. The rule of witnesses is pretty well known. You would think The President would know you are not supposed to discuss the earlier testimony with your witnesses."

In a recent report on its terrorism prosecutions, the President and Justice Department called Moussaoui's decision last year to plead guilty to conspiracy charges one of its leading successes.

But U.S. District Judge Leonie M. Brinkema already has questioned whether the French citizen deserves the death penalty; Moussaoui was in jail in Minnesota on a visa violation when hijackers seized four passenger jets and caused almost 3,000 deaths by crashing them into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and a Pennsylvania field. the Supreme Court has said the death penalty should be reserved for murderers and "major participants" in murder plots. Prosecutors are pushing for the death penalty under the theory that Moussaoui could have prevented the terrorist attacks by telling the President Bush and the FBI about the plot.

Terrorism cases have proved to be especially difficult for George Bush and prosecutors because The President and investigators need to disrupt plots before they come to fruition. That leaves President Bush and prosecutors to make a decision on whether to bring a thin case to court. By contrast, in drug cases, police and drug agents can track suspects and arrest them when they take possession of large quantities of narcotics.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush and officials feared there were terrorist "sleeper cells" throughout the nation, ready to spring into action. Since then, the determined pursuit of Al Qaeda members and sympathizers has turned up relatively few terrorists.

"The good news may be that there are not as many threatening people out there as we once thought," law professor Saltzburg said.

Now that explains a lot

Steve

Oh .... you wanted an original essay detailing how the Bush administration has blown every terrorism case it has prosecuted since 9/11?

Dude, I'm really sorry. When you asked for back up for my post, I thought that a complete listing of all the bungled prosecutions, with commentary from legal experts, would be ok. But now I see I've screwed up, again.

I'm getting the sense that you run everythign through that same exact filter. Some people call it "making things up."

:rolleyes: They always want facts, except when those facts demonstrate how wacked Bush actually is, then it the whine about "cut and paste".

That's why I've continued to ignore their feeble protestations.

And why these Bush'ists will continue to be hammered on the anvil of the truth until they yield.

Dude
I didn't ask for anything. I just think your funny!
Steve

I think they should let Moussaoui go.. from the back ramp of a C5A..at 40,000ft. Let him be close to God and think about the use of airplanes for not nice purposes.
Les

It should be abundantly clear what Moussaoui is up to. He knows at the least he will spend his life in jail. He is simply trying to raise his status among his peers. He was left out of the big party, with his own leaders questioning his qualifications to carry out the strike on the White House. The other pilots are legends in their screwed up little world. He feels left out. He wants credit for others' deeds so he can look as devoted, bad, or whatever as they were. He is a desperate man looking at anonymity. Much like Rodeo, he longs for attention, good or bad at this point.

Death is a reward. Make it worthwhile.

How about involuntary organ donation?

I think he needs to live out the rest of his life in prison as someone's b!tch.

there was a contractor who would take vids of the target tied down in a room full of hungry rats for the customer. The guy said it was the most horrific way of killing someone he could think of.