Which Car is the MPG King?

[cegerer]

Hint: It's Not the Prius

That's the title of the cover story in AutoWeek this week. Results?

1. VW Jetta TDI -- 49.9MPG (EPA Hwy 42MPG)
2. Toyota Prius Hybrid -- 42.0MPG (EPA Hwy 51MPG)
3. Honda Accord Hybrid -- 33.9MPG (EPA Hwy 34MPG)

The Jetta was their favorite car to drive irregardless of mileage as well and was running B20 (20% vegetable oil) - corrected for 'petro-fuel-MPG' it would calculate out to 62.4MPG. Why this country doesn't get on board with very simple decades-old diesel technology baffles me. I run B20 all the time (10 cents less than reg gas today). We have only one fuel station in Michigan with B100 (100% vegetable oil) and my car runs great on that when I can get to that station.

All the manufacturers in Europe have similar diesel power plants that account for over 1/2 of all passenger vehicle sales. GM/Ford/Chrysler could all do the same. Easily. Instead, they're producing complicated stop-gap technology that doesn't work all that well and hasn't been selling well after the initial novelty factor wore off.

[vash]

funny, i just emailed an out of state VW dealer asking about a TDI car.

any californians know of the hoops i will need to jump through to bring one in?

[RickM]

Don't the Euro cars fare better with more refined fuel and advanced diesel technology?

Also, auto companys claim that a TDI hybrid is too expensive to build. I think it's a good idea and they're full of Bio Mass.

[cegerer]

I heard a rumor that there will be no TDI's imported to the US in 2007 due to tightening EPA emission requirements. Anybody know if that's true? If it is, I don't want to hear anyone in this country complain about fuel costs - it's apparently OK with the EPA to sell 10MPG gas-burning Hummers but not 50MPG TDI's ......

[EdT82SC]

Deisel cars pollute more even with their better gas mileage. I've read that tightening environment regulations in Europe are going to cause deisel engines to get mileage similar to gasoline engined cars unless someone can come up with better technology to clean deisel emissions.

[RickM]

From the VWVortex Forum:

"Diesel enthusiasts in this country are a hardy bunch. Thanks in no part to the dubious efforts thrown forth by Detroit in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s, they’ve endured years of ridicule and misunderstanding for their choice of transportation. Never mind that the Europeans have developed the diesel engine to a high art; here in America, the home of cheap gas and big cars, diesels are typically relegated to truck duty.
Thing were looking up with the announcement that low-sulfur diesel fuel would finally become available here starting in late 2006. But before we could all abandon our gas-guzzlers and jump on the Euro bandwagon, the EPA decided that diesel-equipped passenger vehicles would be required to meet a strict new set of emissions standards starting with the 2007 model year. Despite advanced engine technology and cleaner fuel, today's diesels still produce too much particulate matter (soot) and too high a level of NOx (oxides of nitrogen) to meet the new standards. 2006 therefore effectively marks the end of the road for the current generation of diesel cars in this market.

Volkswagen is one of the few carmakers to consistently offer a diesel option here- in fact every generation of the Jetta has been available with a diesel option. For 2006, Volkswagen’s bread-and-butter sedan once again houses..." http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_1639.shtml

[Tobra]

Originally posted by vash
funny, i just emailed an out of state VW dealer asking about a TDI car.

any californians know of the hoops i will need to jump through to bring one in?

No hoops, you just have to either register it in another state(big no, no) or move, simple. I suppose you could characterize it as a commercial vehicle, but that would probably not fly. The emmissions laws here are to generate income, not to protect the environment.

I would not mind having a biodiesel vehicle, like the idea of my car smelling like french fries

[RickM]

Originally posted by EdT82SC
Deisel cars pollute more even with their better gas mileage. I've read that tightening environment regulations in Europe are going to cause deisel engines to get mileage similar to gasoline engined cars unless someone can come up with better technology to clean deisel emissions.

From the article link posted:

"Sidebar- Perhaps the only other carmaker as committed as VW to offering diesels in America is Mercedes-Benz. Last month at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show, M-B confirmed that it will offer its next-generation diesel technology, known as BlueTech, here starting this fall in 2007 models. ...
Bluetec employs two new technologies that allow this diesel engine family to meet the new EPA requirements for NOx and particulate matter emmissions. NOx reduction is accomplished by way of either water or urea injection (depending on the appilcation) into the combustion chamber. The additional storage tank required by this system will be filled my M-B technicians during routine maintenance every 10,000 miles. Particulate matter (soot) will be removed from the exhaust stream by an in-line particluate trap, which according to M-B, is maintenance-free."


Add:

"What does that mean for the future of diesel VWs here? While VW insists it will remain committed to offering a diesel option here, the cost of compliance may ultimately determine its fate. The TDI is already a $1000 premium option over the standard 2.5-liter gas engine. Will buyers pay an even higher premium for an ultra-clean VW diesel? If not, is VW willing to subsidize the cost of this technology as a matter of principle? Ultimately, a change in tax-credit policy for ultra-clean diesels will probably be the deciding factor."

[GothingNC]

If you want to know more about the VW TDI log onto www.tdiclub.com

My wife has an 04 Jetta TDI and loves it.
It's a Tiptronic and we still avg'd close to 50 MPG on a trip from NC to NC with traffic and at speeds around 80 MPH.

ULSD will help cut down the emissions a lot and prevent soot from clogging the intake manifold.

I do not like the new version of the Jetta and she picked up her car just before gas started getting over $2 a gallon.

[cegerer]

Thanks for that info! Like I said, I don't want to hear anybody cry about fuel costs. We can do something about it, but we as a country have chosen not to. If emission control is our priority and $4-$5 per gallon gasoline is the way to achieve it, everyone should be happy right?

Likewise, look at the massive coal reserves in SE Montana (said to be enough to sustain 100% of our oil needs for 40 years). The Governor there has been pushing his coal-to-oil plan like crazy. They can make a profit on it at $42/barrel and have plants up and running in 2 years. Unfortunately, it will all be held up by lawsuits from the enviro-wackos and will never get off the ground while we continue to rely on the MidEast. The trump card may be held by the Indians though ... the majority of the coal is sitting on Indian land .... and they thought the casino business was lucrative.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/05/21/build/state/35-coal-oil.inc

[928ram]

Bluetec employs two new technologies that allow this diesel engine family to meet the new EPA requirements for NOx and particulate matter emmissions. NOx

Just read a print article about this where they said the new M-B engines will be 50 state legal and will be the same powerplant for all US markets (thus all will be Cali-legal, or 49-state = clean enough for Cali ?) and are expected to make their way in to other DCX brands within a year or two of intro in MB models.

[makaio]

Originally posted by vash
funny, i just emailed an out of state VW dealer asking about a TDI car.

any californians know of the hoops i will need to jump through to bring one in?

Vash, a guy I used to work with did this with a 06 Passat Diesel. He had to register it in Oregon untill he had 6500 miles on it. After it had 6500 miles on it, California regocognizes it as a used car. Which is legal to bring into the state. Then he transfered the registration to California.

So that shows how fuched up the state is, when it will deny the selling of a car in it new. But let you bring it in used

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Sorry to be one of them a-hole grammar cops, but "irregardless" isn't a word. "Regardless" is a word, "irregardless" isn't - regardless of what you've been told. . .

Yea, the best car for the environment, not allowed in CA for sale 'cause evidently only those with Powerstroke trucks or gigantic freight hauling vehicles, construction equipment, or ships are apparently worthy enough of the wonders of diesel fuel.

[cegerer]

Thanks for the correction. I was reading further in AutoWeek and they have another article regarding the Audi R10 TDI that won Sebring. It runs on special synthetic Shell diesel fuel derived from natural gas - not oil - using the same Fisher-Tropsch process that the Montana program is proposing (and used by Hitler to power his diesel tanks and heavy trucks in WWII). They allude to blending this type of synthetic diesel with the new lo-sulfer diesel and biodiesels that will begin appearing in the US in September. They also indicate that Audi/VW will have a system similar to Mercedes and will meet California's "toughest in the world" standards, although maybe not until 2008. I don't think diesel passenger cars are going away anytime soon.

[speeder]

Originally posted by vash
funny, i just emailed an out of state VW dealer asking about a TDI car.

any californians know of the hoops i will need to jump through to bring one in?

There is a web site called eBay, go there and buy a 2005 or 2006 VW TDI w/ at least 6500 miles on it and register it in CA.

Next question!

[island911]

How many licks, does it take, to get to the tootsie-roll center of a tootsie-pop?

[nostatic]

its 7500 miles

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr9.htm

[speeder]

Here you go, Cliff:

http://motors.search-desc.ebay.com/TDI_Volkswagen_W0QQcatrefZC3QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZ compareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfcclZ1QQ fclZ3QQfromZR2QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ9QQftrtZ1QQf trvZ1QQftsZ2QQsacatZ6018QQsbrsrtZl

I keep that page bookmarked. I almost bought a used TDI last summer, but the damn things hold their value so well that all I could have got was a toilet for my budget.

When you factor in super-high resale value, (even w/ a lot of miles, diesels are not like gas cars in regards to the mileage hit on book value), and the MPGs, it is an inexpensive car to own. The TDIs are relatively quick as well, you shift at like 2000 rpm for best 0-60 times. They are a blast to drive IMO, once you get the hang of them. Some owners coast on hills and do other goofy things to shoot for mileage records, like ~60mpg.

The only bummer is that of course anyone selling one thinks that they are made out of gold right now, that always sucks. But what are you gonna do? Great deals on GMC Denalis right now, buy one get one free. I was thinking of getting one w/ the "rain forrest eliminator" package on it, (big tires and heavy rhino guards to further reduce mileage), and use it as frikkin' planter.

[nostatic]

damn, the Jetta wagon is sweet...and even the bug is cool (still a sucker for a hatchback). Get's better mileage than my bike...but can't lane split with it

[speeder]

OK, I could go on and on......, I love Turbo Direct Injection diesels that much.

I have a '99 F-250 4x4 Powerstroke that I am rebuilding right now and plan on running on home made bio diesel as much as possible. It is a 6400 lb. (empty) 4x4 w/ a 440 cu. in. turbocharged V-8 w/ ~600 ft. lbs. of torque @ 1600 rpm that will get close to 20 mpg highway w/ my 3.73 gears and stock diameter tires.

One of my absolute favorite, coolest vehicles ever made is the one year only 2004 VW Toureg V-10 TDI, 550 lbs. of torque and ~25 mpg highway. That is the type of mill that you want in an SUV, massive torque off of idle and a 3000 rpm red line. Yeah, baby!!

Too bad they go for $60k used on eBay. If I was rich, I'd have that sucker.