Give it to him and his "P" factor will be huge at highschool. expect him to be a Dad at 17. :D

I say get an agile car if he is the alert type as a daily driver. Most American sports cars that bring good cornering to the table, also have a lot of power, so a foreign car is probably better.

I've had some scary instances of cars pulling out in front of me, or other stupid things, that if I'd of been driving a car of lesser abilties would of resulted in metal to metal contact.

If on the other hand, he's the type that is more likely to cause an accident, then avoid one, and you are concerned with his safety, then by all means go with a big heavy car - woe to those who have that collision.

Tervuren - My first car was a '76 olds station wagon. Lots of get-n-go with that 350 in it, sucked the gas, but it also was a darn near indestructible tank.

there's a reason people fear the 911 handling traits. until he understands these things, it's asking for trouble.

get him a rear wheel drive car to learn car control, maybe do some type of car control clinic and see what happens...

So I found a possibility. Maybe. Some poor guys 2002 BMW 325i got vandalized just before lease return. Car is mechanically perfect, 40,000 miles, has front and side airbags, ONLY 185 HP ! I can probably get the car for $14,000. A local body shop owes me a favor, so I could get the bodywork and paint done pretty cheaply.

The retail bluebook on this car is about $22,500. The car was keyed and the left front fender kicked in. Not really all that bad. What do you think?

With a 1973 VW Fastback, I too, managed to get into plenty of trouble. For example, did you know that the rear view mirrors on those things start flapping around at about 90mph?

-Z-man.

Yep. My first car was an 82 Honda, 10 years ago next month.

My recommendations: 944, 912, Datsun Z, or 914. All are cool, attainable cars that are fairly easy to work on. Not coincidently I've owned 3 of the 4 and they are all great.

I say no to the pcars and Z suggested above. He should be driving something he can haul stuff around in! How about a Golf? Ford Focus?

Toyota Tundra or equivalent truck.

185 horsies and RWD is still plenty to get in trouble
further more, modern cars are to easy to drive fast, young drivers will find their limit at way to high speeds when it's to late to recover

if i had a kid, he'de be getting what i got
a VW rabbit mk2 diesel ( not TD, not TDI , just D )

dirt cheap
not much power
slow
predictable handling
reliable

at least one year and 10 000 km's before upgrading

Hmmm. I have it backwards. Since I've become financially responsible for myself, I treat my stuff much more harshly. I've tracked both of my Porsches, wrecked the 993 twice, spun them both multiple times on the street and the track. I don't even get a rush anymore when I spin on the track. Had a HUGE one yesterday. If I did it in someone else's car, I'd have a heart attack.

I firmly believe my track experiences have made me a better driver on the street. I know the skid pad exercises saved my a$s a few yrs. later when I spun the 993 on the street. Best of all, getting all my aggression out on the track keeps me sane on the street. Moses, whatever you do, I'd make sure your son gets to do an HPDC very soon and then starts with DE's. I have such a better understanding of driving physics and mechanical things now because of track driving and DIY track car prep.

Rick still has to edit his post to incorporate changes recommended by his buddies in NoVA and DC. As it is, and knowing RL, it's entertaining reading. :p

I like the 3 series idea, even if it is still kinda of quick. it will be very safe and very reliable and will still provide a cool factor (though not as much as the Pcar would)

My first car was a '59 VW with 36 well fed horses, no gas gauge, six volts pushing the tower of power and just enough tread on the pavement for a ten-speed...

And I still pushed it, especially downhill, 'cause I could...I have never been more out of control in any car than I was going 80 miles an hour down the Conjeo Grade in the '59.

Best car for your son is one with good brakes and tires, decent stereo and reasonable looks...make sure the
cell phone is off, no more than one friend is in it at a time, blah, blah, blah.

With a thirteen year-old daughter, I'll soon be worrying about EVERYBODYS sons cars!

My dad's first car I beleive was a Bug, had a seroiusly modded motor, combined with the CG and suspension - the thing pulled wheelies. He also had got a apiar of very large wheels/tires for it, had to cut modify the fenders to get it to fit.

I bought my first car with paper route money I earned. My Dad announced to me just before my 16th Birthday that he would match what I had saved to put towards a car. I had $600. This got me a Dodge Colt 4 Door with an auto tranny. Oh, it was powder Blue. I could not drive it for 4 months as I saved to register it and insure it myself. We were not well off and I know it took a lot for my Dad to dish out that money. But he made me work to get the rest together to get it on the road.

I informed my 12 year old son he better start saving now if he wants a car. I am not in the same situation my dad was but I believe that if I just hand him a car he will never learn the responsibility of earnign it himself nor will he truly appreciate the cost of buying one and getting it on the road. I will help him with insurance but that is only because of the rates being rediculas now.

He already Karts and inderstand understeer and oversteer as well as trail braking. I fully plan on getting him into Autocross before he EVER gets on a road course. He needs to learn car control and I prefer him to learn it in second gear in a parking lot of cones rather than on a track with walls and other cars.

This organization has an awesome program called a Teen Driving School. I fully plan on him signing up for that. Then he can do the Phases. Then he can move onto road course after he demonstrates to me he can control a car on an Autocross. The added benefit is most Autocrossers make much better Road Course drivers.

I am a prefect example, VERY fast car and never a spin or off road excursion and I push that car pretty damn hard.
http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

Too much car to start with for a young kid, even if he is above average. I was a good kid and made A's and obeyed my paarents most of the time. I also knew the top speed of several of our cars:

1970 VW bus 95mph on level, slightly more downhill
1976 Honda Civic 100mph
1978 Honda Accord 110mph
1965 Corvair Monza 100mph

One other consideration is "where" your son will drive. Most likely it will be around many other kids his age with most of them having a lot less ability and common sense.

Also I think some of the journey and desire is missed if starting out with a 911. I mean, where can you go from there? Start a little lower and then work your way up. Part of the fun is the anticipation and the trip, not just the destination. My suggestion would be an older Miata. They are fun, cheap, reliable, and probably still too fast for a young kid. They do have a driver's airbag.

Good luck whatever you decide.

If you go to www.kbb.com and book out the car for trade-in value in good condition, you should get an accurate number. Describe the body damage to your local body shop and ask what they'd charge a dealer for the repair (sounds like $2,500). Deduct $1,000 over that amount, and hit it hard for anything else (like tires, etc) from the kbb trade-in number and don't pay more than about that. If you're going to recon the car, you should be in it wholesale for your efforts. That car will probably never look as good as one that's never been hit

Market value would probably be 20% higher than trade-in +/- (high blue book is a joke). The bodywork on that BMW might even hold it a little lower than that, too.

If I were in your shoes, I'd look for a used car from an original owner with service records. Like a normally-aspirated Volvo 850, S70, or 740/760 with low miles.

Moses, I'm sure your son is a responsible kid and SoCal is likely a more "jaded" auto environment than here in the NE, but we've had a plague of accidents involving kids (oddly, mostly athletes, or maybe not so oddly) in "cool" cars killing themselves and 2 or 3 of their friends by trying to live up to the car's capabilities. One in a Mustang Gt (3 dead) one in a 330i (4 dead), another in an R32 (3 dead, iirc) yada. The instance of these accidents goes up exponentially when there is more than one passenger. I think that anything that "cool" is potential trouble.

My 89 yr old dad gave me his 85.5 944 a year ago when my son turned 16. Its now my daily driver, not my son's, and he understands. Its a great car, but so "well balanced" than you can get yourself in trouble with it. Any car that "handles well" in experienced hands likely is dangerous in a youngsters-what you want for a kid is prevailing understeer. I do allow my son to drive the 911 and the 944 occasionally, but he's wrenched on both and sort of "earned" it and knows the capabilities and quirks.

For me, I'd buy my kid something boring-mine ended up with a Subaru Imprezza, because I love him. Its tough love, I know, but the risks are just too great.

An older impreza or legacy is a great suggestion as well.

Kids can and do wreck all kinds of cars, trucks and minivans. When I was a teen driver, I rolled a '72 beetle, spun an '83 Lecar on icy roads at 60 mph, spun a '72 240z on wet roads at 55mph in traffic, and hit a phone pole after falling asleep at the wheel in a rabbit diesel. I was lucky in that the rabbit diesel was the only car that got totalled. I had a '72 Mustang that I did not put a scratch on. It really does not matter IMO what the kid drives as he/she will test it's limits whether the limits happen to be 50 mph or 65 mph on a given on ramp. I mean come on, just about every car made will do 100+. The new cars with traction control and ABS are very fast and with all these electronic aids, they put the limits at way faster speeds.

The only legitimate argument I will acknowledge, is that if a kid has a "high performance" car, other kids will be more likely to coax him into driving like an idiot more often than if the same kid was in mom's minivan. Don't fool yourself though, rest assured, even the minivan will get hammered on every now and then.

Bottom line is that the kids should only drive cars that you can afford to lose. (eg: my daughters' '77 924 and '87 924S)

I will agree with you, reluctantly...Even a WRX would be okay (front and side airbags).

I'm only 22, i own a 911. I definately try to push that car to the limit every now and then, as im sure you're son would too. How can you not? The only advise i can give you, make sure he knows the NUMBER 1 rule. "DO NOT LET UP ON THE THROTTLE IF YOUR TAKING A FAST TURN!" I got lucky when i found out! Other than that, he should be ok.

Rule #1 - don't take a fast turn without suffecient room that if you spin or missjudge your entry speed, you won't hit any oncoming car or stationary object.

that one should be common sense, which is why i got lucky and spun out heading into an empty parkinglot.

I rest my case.

I think all my fears are encapsulated above: common sense, luck and a spin used in the same sentence.

sepsis, please take no offense...my driving and flying transgretions when I was a pup were nearly boundless. I wish you luck and pray for common sense.

Your son's first car is a dream car of every man in this country. Isn't that too much?
Remember years ago, I have been a good kid too. I always take care of any car in the family. Wash and wax my car every time per week, not saying several times a week once in a while. I am proud that I have been a very carefull driver and never had an accident at false but.. I would race whoever came closed to me, and I was driving a nissan sentra. We used to fool around, race, mess people up 300+ miles after shool.
Honestly, I would encourage my son to do these things.

no man , for you #1 rule is not to drive your car without a fan belt.
#2 rule for you is to bloody listen when people give you advice so you don't run any more risk to your engine that you allready ran without a fanbelt for 20 minutes

just like this one


oh wait , that was your troll thread SmileWavy

power placement
 

One aspect is the RWD/Rear COG, this creates for a very unstable situation in loss of traction. Between the medium duty trucks, light duty pickups, 911, 914 and miscellaneous FWD cars I have driven, the 911 required the most attention in low friction environments. This is a lot to demand of a new driver, is your son at all nervous about the car? I would suggest something mild and FWD for the first year or two (insert beater car here, I like corollas and other Toyota passenger cars, good value, durable)

It isn’t about what the car can do, rather about what he can handle.

I still remember this from my performance driving experiences, and it is very true. He gave us some very nice track cars and we quickly learned how out of our league we would be on our own, the track is one thing, but on the road there is other peoples live in immediate danger, and lots of them who don’t know what to do in and emergency situation.
The safest option, according to the last consumer reports I read is the VW Jetta V-6.
Enough power to get you out of trouble, safe and not enough trouble to get out of hand.

I think the best option is something mild to start with, lots of driving experience and if you can, some track time with a seasoned and well explained instructor would help.
Let him get a feel for perdicting what other drivers and the road will do, how the road tells you curves are coming, tel-tale signs of a screwy driver (or pedestrian/cyclist) and suspension.

Hope everything goes well for you and your son.

First i wanna say,
svandamme, just... give... it... up...
your like a f*cking child. It wasn't a troll thread, and the car still runs strong.

Secondly,
I am giving a young guy's point of view, and a bit of advise, that might potentially keep his son out of danger. Just like myself, yonger guys don't always think ahead. Maybe his son will, and my input is pointless, but everyone is faced with temptation at one point or another. Yea you older guys are experts and know how to drive 911's like pro's, but me and the gentleman's son here don't. So before u all start quoting me, and making an example out of me, just realize im trying to help this guy out with whatever little bit i have to offer. If my situation was any different, i could've been in the hospital after that, and it could've possibly been avoided if someone gave me the same advice. Jesus...

I wish someone would give me a 911.......:rolleyes:

Let him earn it, it will actually make P-car ownership worthwhile .

I think you should give it to him. Granted hes a young guy, I think if he respects the car as much as you say he does, you'll have nothing to worry about. Just bring him to DE events (which i need to do myself) and let him get out all his curiosity there about the cars capabilities.

How about we start at some Autocrosses and work our way up to DE's?

Why throw him in a situation where he will be doing 100+ MPH with other cars and walls around him?

You proved they can get away from you in second gear. Why not hone your skills where the worst that can happen is a scuff mark from a cone.

Why so many people jump right on a track is beyond me. It not a cakewalk out there on a track. There is a lot going on and there are other people trusting you. Autocross a couple of years then get on the track once you have got the car control thing down. What you learn Autocrossing will be priceless on the track.

sepsis, you crack me up. you know that guy that thinks he is a great driver, simply because he has been powersliding all his life? like the car is an extension of his body? you are the one!!! i was told by a driving intructor that he has a special eyeroll for just these types of statements.
there are more rules than "not lifting". for example,like "lifting alittle bit".

he's just trolling again

I love the guys that show up at Autocrosses with either their riced out import, super powerful muscle car (Corvette) or high end sports car and they get their clock cleaned by both a 60 year old man in a Miata and a 18 year old kid in a stock civic.

These are the guys that go once get their clock cleaned and instead of saying, hey I have a lot to learn. They say "Autocrossing is a joke, its not real racing" and nover do it again.

I can spot these guys out on the track during DE's. Usually driving a terrible line and not in too good control of their car. They also have a hard time giving a pont by to the faster car and prefer to race it down the straights to prove once and for all their car is faster.

Isn't DE events "Drivers Ed" events? Where they teach you how to properly handle your car? Thats the assumption i've been under. And no i never said im any expert. And svandamme find something better to do than heckle younger drivers on web forums. I want to be taught how to drive, thats why i said DE Events. Maybee i used the wrong term. Correct me if im wrong.

Yes they are Drivers Education. It is assumed you have a degree of car control.

You can go to one a total NewB and you will survive. I see it all the time, but you will either be very slow out there or fast and dangerous. I was a 1st timer and still considered a Novice on some tracks due to my lack of seat time at that particular track. But, every review I have had done has the words "remarkable car control abilities" and "shows courtesy on track is aware of his surroundings" and "totally comfortable riding in this car at speed".

I mearly suggest getting a couple of years of Autocross under your belt. Its cheaper and more forgiving. You will learn a LOT about car control as the courses are set to to try to get you out of wack. If you want to spend the $200+ on a event instead of $30 for an AX try out Evolution. In one day you will get a whole year of seat time and walk away a very good driver... if your humble and listen to what is taught.
Best driving instruction I have ever been through:
http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

To this day I take one or 2 classes from them a year to freshen up.

Thanks for the info! I'll def look into it.