My sons first car? YIKES!!!!

[TerryBPP]

Give it to him and his "P" factor will be huge at highschool. expect him to be a Dad at 17.

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by id10t
Get him something big and heavy and american for his daily driver. Then get him a 356 or 912 project for the P car factor. You two can have fun together getting it setup for him to enjoy when he is older and insurance rates are more reasonable.

I say get an agile car if he is the alert type as a daily driver. Most American sports cars that bring good cornering to the table, also have a lot of power, so a foreign car is probably better.

I've had some scary instances of cars pulling out in front of me, or other stupid things, that if I'd of been driving a car of lesser abilties would of resulted in metal to metal contact.

If on the other hand, he's the type that is more likely to cause an accident, then avoid one, and you are concerned with his safety, then by all means go with a big heavy car - woe to those who have that collision.

[id10t]

Tervuren - My first car was a '76 olds station wagon. Lots of get-n-go with that 350 in it, sucked the gas, but it also was a darn near indestructible tank.

[}{arlequin]

there's a reason people fear the 911 handling traits. until he understands these things, it's asking for trouble.

get him a rear wheel drive car to learn car control, maybe do some type of car control clinic and see what happens...

[Moses]

So I found a possibility. Maybe. Some poor guys 2002 BMW 325i got vandalized just before lease return. Car is mechanically perfect, 40,000 miles, has front and side airbags, ONLY 185 HP ! I can probably get the car for $14,000. A local body shop owes me a favor, so I could get the bodywork and paint done pretty cheaply.

The retail bluebook on this car is about $22,500. The car was keyed and the left front fender kicked in. Not really all that bad. What do you think?

[Z-man]

Originally posted by nostatic
too much car. I started with a '67 bug and could still manage to get into trouble with it.

With a 1973 VW Fastback, I too, managed to get into plenty of trouble. For example, did you know that the rear view mirrors on those things start flapping around at about 90mph?

-Z-man.

[thamlin000]

Originally posted by Z-man
With a 1973 VW Fastback, I too, managed to get into plenty of trouble. For example, did you know that the rear view mirrors on those things start flapping around at about 90mph?

-Z-man.

Yep. My first car was an 82 Honda, 10 years ago next month.

My recommendations: 944, 912, Datsun Z, or 914. All are cool, attainable cars that are fairly easy to work on. Not coincidently I've owned 3 of the 4 and they are all great.

[deathpunk dan]

I say no to the pcars and Z suggested above. He should be driving something he can haul stuff around in! How about a Golf? Ford Focus?

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Moses
So I found a possibility. Maybe. Some poor guys 2002 BMW 325i got vandalized just before lease return. Car is mechanically perfect, 40,000 miles, has front and side airbags, ONLY 185 HP ! I can probably get the car for $14,000. A local body shop owes me a favor, so I could get the bodywork and paint done pretty cheaply.

The retail bluebook on this car is about $22,500. The car was keyed and the left front fender kicked in. Not really all that bad. What do you think?

Toyota Tundra or equivalent truck.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Moses
So I found a possibility. Maybe. Some poor guys 2002 BMW 325i got vandalized just before lease return. Car is mechanically perfect, 40,000 miles, has front and side airbags, ONLY 185 HP ! I can probably get the car for $14,000. A local body shop owes me a favor, so I could get the bodywork and paint done pretty cheaply.

The retail bluebook on this car is about $22,500. The car was keyed and the left front fender kicked in. Not really all that bad. What do you think?

185 horsies and RWD is still plenty to get in trouble
further more, modern cars are to easy to drive fast, young drivers will find their limit at way to high speeds when it's to late to recover

if i had a kid, he'de be getting what i got
a VW rabbit mk2 diesel ( not TD, not TDI , just D )

dirt cheap
not much power
slow
predictable handling
reliable

at least one year and 10 000 km's before upgrading

[Rick Lee]

Hmmm. I have it backwards. Since I've become financially responsible for myself, I treat my stuff much more harshly. I've tracked both of my Porsches, wrecked the 993 twice, spun them both multiple times on the street and the track. I don't even get a rush anymore when I spin on the track. Had a HUGE one yesterday. If I did it in someone else's car, I'd have a heart attack.

I firmly believe my track experiences have made me a better driver on the street. I know the skid pad exercises saved my a$s a few yrs. later when I spun the 993 on the street. Best of all, getting all my aggression out on the track keeps me sane on the street. Moses, whatever you do, I'd make sure your son gets to do an HPDC very soon and then starts with DE's. I have such a better understanding of driving physics and mechanical things now because of track driving and DIY track car prep.

[Jim Richards]

Rick still has to edit his post to incorporate changes recommended by his buddies in NoVA and DC. As it is, and knowing RL, it's entertaining reading.

[gprsh924]

I like the 3 series idea, even if it is still kinda of quick. it will be very safe and very reliable and will still provide a cool factor (though not as much as the Pcar would)

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by Moses
So I found a possibility. Maybe. Some poor guys 2002 BMW 325i got vandalized just before lease return. Car is mechanically perfect, 40,000 miles, has front and side airbags, ONLY 185 HP !

My first car was a '59 VW with 36 well fed horses, no gas gauge, six volts pushing the tower of power and just enough tread on the pavement for a ten-speed...

And I still pushed it, especially downhill, 'cause I could...I have never been more out of control in any car than I was going 80 miles an hour down the Conjeo Grade in the '59.

Best car for your son is one with good brakes and tires, decent stereo and reasonable looks...make sure the
cell phone is off, no more than one friend is in it at a time, blah, blah, blah.

With a thirteen year-old daughter, I'll soon be worrying about EVERYBODYS sons cars!

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by Seahawk
My first car was a '59 VW with 36 well fed horses, no gas gauge, six volts pushing the tower of power and just enough tread on the pavement for a ten-speed...

And I still pushed it, especially downhill, 'cause I could...I have never been more out of control in any car than I was going 80 miles an hour down the Conjeo Grade in the '59.

Best car for your son is one with good brakes and tires, decent stereo and reasonable looks...make sure the
cell phone is off, no more than one friend is in it at a time, blah, blah, blah.

With a thirteen year-old daughter, I'll soon be worrying about EVERYBODYS sons cars!

My dad's first car I beleive was a Bug, had a seroiusly modded motor, combined with the CG and suspension - the thing pulled wheelies. He also had got a apiar of very large wheels/tires for it, had to cut modify the fenders to get it to fit.

[Jims5543]

I bought my first car with paper route money I earned. My Dad announced to me just before my 16th Birthday that he would match what I had saved to put towards a car. I had $600. This got me a Dodge Colt 4 Door with an auto tranny. Oh, it was powder Blue. I could not drive it for 4 months as I saved to register it and insure it myself. We were not well off and I know it took a lot for my Dad to dish out that money. But he made me work to get the rest together to get it on the road.

I informed my 12 year old son he better start saving now if he wants a car. I am not in the same situation my dad was but I believe that if I just hand him a car he will never learn the responsibility of earnign it himself nor will he truly appreciate the cost of buying one and getting it on the road. I will help him with insurance but that is only because of the rates being rediculas now.

He already Karts and inderstand understeer and oversteer as well as trail braking. I fully plan on getting him into Autocross before he EVER gets on a road course. He needs to learn car control and I prefer him to learn it in second gear in a parking lot of cones rather than on a track with walls and other cars.

This organization has an awesome program called a Teen Driving School. I fully plan on him signing up for that. Then he can do the Phases. Then he can move onto road course after he demonstrates to me he can control a car on an Autocross. The added benefit is most Autocrossers make much better Road Course drivers.

I am a prefect example, VERY fast car and never a spin or off road excursion and I push that car pretty damn hard.
http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

[Rob Channell]

Too much car to start with for a young kid, even if he is above average. I was a good kid and made A's and obeyed my paarents most of the time. I also knew the top speed of several of our cars:

1970 VW bus 95mph on level, slightly more downhill
1976 Honda Civic 100mph
1978 Honda Accord 110mph
1965 Corvair Monza 100mph

One other consideration is "where" your son will drive. Most likely it will be around many other kids his age with most of them having a lot less ability and common sense.

Also I think some of the journey and desire is missed if starting out with a 911. I mean, where can you go from there? Start a little lower and then work your way up. Part of the fun is the anticipation and the trip, not just the destination. My suggestion would be an older Miata. They are fun, cheap, reliable, and probably still too fast for a young kid. They do have a driver's airbag.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally posted by Moses
So I found a possibility. Maybe. Some poor guys 2002 BMW 325i got vandalized just before lease return. Car is mechanically perfect, 40,000 miles, has front and side airbags, ONLY 185 HP ! I can probably get the car for $14,000. A local body shop owes me a favor, so I could get the bodywork and paint done pretty cheaply.

The retail bluebook on this car is about $22,500. The car was keyed and the left front fender kicked in. Not really all that bad. What do you think?

If you go to www.kbb.com and book out the car for trade-in value in good condition, you should get an accurate number. Describe the body damage to your local body shop and ask what they'd charge a dealer for the repair (sounds like $2,500). Deduct $1,000 over that amount, and hit it hard for anything else (like tires, etc) from the kbb trade-in number and don't pay more than about that. If you're going to recon the car, you should be in it wholesale for your efforts. That car will probably never look as good as one that's never been hit

Market value would probably be 20% higher than trade-in +/- (high blue book is a joke). The bodywork on that BMW might even hold it a little lower than that, too.

If I were in your shoes, I'd look for a used car from an original owner with service records. Like a normally-aspirated Volvo 850, S70, or 740/760 with low miles.

[greglepore]

Moses, I'm sure your son is a responsible kid and SoCal is likely a more "jaded" auto environment than here in the NE, but we've had a plague of accidents involving kids (oddly, mostly athletes, or maybe not so oddly) in "cool" cars killing themselves and 2 or 3 of their friends by trying to live up to the car's capabilities. One in a Mustang Gt (3 dead) one in a 330i (4 dead), another in an R32 (3 dead, iirc) yada. The instance of these accidents goes up exponentially when there is more than one passenger. I think that anything that "cool" is potential trouble.

My 89 yr old dad gave me his 85.5 944 a year ago when my son turned 16. Its now my daily driver, not my son's, and he understands. Its a great car, but so "well balanced" than you can get yourself in trouble with it. Any car that "handles well" in experienced hands likely is dangerous in a youngsters-what you want for a kid is prevailing understeer. I do allow my son to drive the 911 and the 944 occasionally, but he's wrenched on both and sort of "earned" it and knows the capabilities and quirks.

For me, I'd buy my kid something boring-mine ended up with a Subaru Imprezza, because I love him. Its tough love, I know, but the risks are just too great.

[deathpunk dan]

An older impreza or legacy is a great suggestion as well.